Thinking about Transferring Law Schools?
This post is geared toward current 1Ls thinking about applying to other schools for their 2L year, but it is also a good thing for 0Ls to keep in mind as they choose where to attend this year.
Here’s a great introduction to the pros and cons of transferring law schools and issues to consider.
Here is a very detailed analysis by one person who transferred from Loyola-LA to Boalt - it has a lot of details but I haven’t checked these facts so read it with a grain of salt.
Here’s an oldie (2007) post with credible stats about transferring law schools.
Here are previous posts of mine on the subject of transferring law schools: (Read the comments on these too – lots of good info there)
Thinking About Transferring as a 2L?
A great option: Applying as a Transfer Student
More on Transferring Law Schools (beware law school policies discouraging transfers!)
If you’re planning to apply to transfer after your 1L year and you’re looking for help, please contact me. I do work with transfer applicants and am happy to create packages specific for your needs.
Related posts:
- Frugal Law Student Blog – Check it out
- Resources for December LSAT Takers
- New Year’s Resolutions for Law School Applicants
- Applying to Law School: Organize Your Time
- Got Your June LSAT Score?
Ann K. Levine, Esq., former director of law school admissions for two ABA approved law schools, is a law school admission consultant and owner of Law School Expert,
Hey, this was helpful information. You should also check out Law Riot!
Dear Ann,
I was wondering if you could give me advice about a big question I am facing. I would like to get into Georgetown because of their program. (I am particularly interested in international human rights.) However, I made the decision to go to law school a little late in the application season and took the Feb. LSAT. I scored way below what my practice tests were consistently at and wasn’t able to get into Georgetown for the Fall. I’m registered for the June LSAT and hope to get a score that will qualify me.
I’m 29 and a little reluctant to put law school off for another year. So, I’m considering attending another law school this Fall and transferring into Georgetown if my LSAT score comes back high enough. Do you think this is a wise course of action?
Secondly, if I get a score that puts me in Georgetown range, how much weight would they put on the ranking of the school I attend for my first year when they evaluate my transfer application? Would attending a third tier put me at a much greater advantage than a fourth tier? If I choose a first tier (which would cost more) would that put me at a much greater advantage than a third tier?
Thanks in advance for your help in this crucial question.
Michael,
When you transfer, it’s not the LSAT score that matters. It’s all on your first year grades and class ranking at the best law school you can get into now. If you’re retaking the LSAT in June, then you will know your score in time to decide whether you’d now be in the running for GT as a Fall 2011 applicant, or whether you’re better off taking whatever offers you have.
The school you attend your first year matters a lot. It’s one thing to be at a Top 30 school and be #1 in your class and transfer to a Top 14 law school but it’s not nearly as likely to do that from a third or fourth tier school. I’ve worked with clients who transferred from Loyola LA (a Tier 2) to GT, and from Catholic to GT. But it’s all about doing really well at those schools – simply being in the top 20% of your class isn’t going to cut it.
I hope this is helpful.
Thank you so much. I really appreciate the time and thought you gave to this.
Hi Ann,
I found your site while searching for information on transferring after my first year of law school and was wondering if I could ask you for some quick advice, especially based on what I’m reading in your response to Michael’s query.
I’m 24, and have been working full-time in publishing since graduating early from a top-10 East Coast university four years ago. I underperformed as an undergrad, and ended up with a low GPA (above 3.0, but still below average.) I did okay on the LSAT (just above 50th percentile) when I took it last year, but not great, as I was fighting through an illness at the time. All in all, my UGPA and LSAT just don’t really reflect my academic potential…
I applied to a bunch of schools in CA (where I want to attend school and practice law) and was rejected from many, waitlisted at 1 Tier 2, and got into a T-4 with a big merit scholarship and a fellowship based on my interest in IP law.
Since I got into the T-4, I’ve been planning on working my tail off getting amazing grades and being one of the top 2-3 in my class (unless I get into the T-2 off the waitlist)
If I’m able to be at the top of my class at the T-4, do you think there’s any hope of me getting into UCLA for 2&3L? That’s always been my top choice…
Do you have any helpful advice to give? I would be so grateful to hear any of your opinions or feedback. Thanks so much in advance.
Rachel, Call UCLA and ask them where they took transfers from last year….
Ann – thanks so much for your help.
This is interesting. However, if I just finished my first year in tier 4 law school with slightly above 3.0 GPA and I am in about upper 35%, is there a possibility to transfer to top 50 school at all? How about tier 2 (50-100)?
Max, From a T4 Law school and only in top third, you are probably shooting too high. You can call schools you are interested in and ask where they take transfers from and what ranking they are looking for from different caliber schools. Most will tell you. If you are looking for help with your transfer applications, please feel free to contact me through my website for more specific advice.
Good luck!
Ann
Ann,
I am at Emory and am wanting to transfer back to where my family lives because of personal reasons. I finished my first year with a 2.5 GPA and am worried about getting in as a transfer. I am applying to transfer to lower ranked schools (SMU, OU, OCU, and Houston). Should I be worried about not getting in? I’ve looked at different sites and most are about transferring up in the rankings. Nothing really talks about transferring down. Thank you so much!
Hi Grant,
You’re right. You’re in a different situation. If your 1L GPA was impacted partly because you were so far from home, you need to explain that and why you’re transferring to schools in your home region. I wouldn’t count you out, but you have to show the schools the reason for the lackluster performance (and assure them it won’t be a problem once you’re home) and that you have good reasons for doing what you’re doing. But make sure you impress them before telling them something negative. A lot of people forget this!
Good luck.
Ann
Ann,
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond! It was really helpful and calmed down my nerves.
- Grant
Dear Ann,
I finished my first year at a T4 school in the top 11% of my first year class(3.4GPA). I wanted to go back to California and so I put out a few transfer apps in the tiers above me. I haven’t heard from most of the schools, but I got into a T3 the other day via a phone call. I want to know if a transfer to a T3 law school worth paying double. I’d be giving up a lot by way of scholarships, deans list, moot court etc. I also got some 3.8s and 4.0s on my transcript and I would have to give those up at a new law school.
The second thing I want to know is what are my chances of getting into T2&T1? I’ve seen some students with lower numbers then mine get into T2 schools. Both of the T2 schools I applied to like to see students in the top 10%-15%. My dream school is in T1, and you need to finish in the top 20% in order to be eligible to apply at all. I believe that a student from a T4 law school has to do much better than that to have a shot, but I don’t know if 11% is good enough.
Thanks,
Stephen
Hi Stephen, We’re talking ranking, but not particular schools so it’s hard for me to tell you what would be worthwhile. If you’re at Thomas Cooley, for example, and you want to be in CA, I’d tell you to leave the money and the 3.8 and run west as quickly as possible. Most of the transfer applicants I’m working with right now have heard back from all or almost all of their schools. Two from T3 schools are jumping up to Top 30 schools with a ranking just a little higher than yours, if that helps.
Hi Ann,
Thanks for getting back to me. Ok, here’s the deal. I go to Detroit Mercy School of Law. My dream school is USC and I got into Southwestern. I also applied to Pepperdine and Loyola. I haven’t heard from Pepperdine or Loyola, but my applications became complete last week (our school posts final grades and rankings really late). The important thing is that I met all of the deadlines.
Pepperdine asks for the top 10-15% in order to be competitive. Loyola likes to see students in the top 10%-15% (thats what they told me). And for USC you need to be in the top 20% in order to be considered at all.
Stephen, That does help – thanks. I think if you want to be in CA, then SW is better than DM, and it’s probably worth the extra $$, but only you can make that decision about how important it is to you to be in LA. I think USC is probably a huge reach, but hang in there with P and L.
Good luck!
Dear Anne,
I have been admitted to UDC as well as Catholic University as a first year student. UDC offered me money, and they’re practically free anyway, while Catholic gave me nothing. I was on the waitlist for many others but as of today it doesn’t look like it’s going to happen. UMD just released the rest of their waitlist today. Catholic is just as expensive as many other top schools in the area, nearly 40k, but is barely holding onto a spot in the top 100. I was thinking about just going to UDC and transferring out after the first year but I’ve been told that it’s not a good idea to plan on transferring as it’s so difficult to do. I plan on pursuing public interest law or some other related, non-big law, relatively low paying career. Do I bite the bullet and go in debt 120k for Catholic, or go to UDC without any debt and hope I can transfer to someplace better after the first year?
Thanks in advance,
Lauren
Hi Lauren – great question! UDC is known for public interest, and if it’s practically free you’ll be in a much better position to actually pursue public interest work after law school. If you do well after your first year then you can consider transferring, but I think – given your career goals – you might be perfectly happy with a degree from UDC. Let me know!
Ann
I have a 2.5 GPA at NYLS – Am I “stuck” here or can I get in anywhere as a desperate measure?
Ed, where were you hoping to move?
Ann,
I did not have a good experience at my past law school (tier 4 ). After a year sabbatical from law school, I applied for transfer as a 2L . I did not get into any of the 8 schools that I applied to, including tier 4. My application was solid, but it was extremely difficult to get materials from my school in a timely manner. For example, transcripts were sent a month late and missing a letter of good standing. I believe this hurt my application.
What should I do moving forward? I don’t want to return to my school, but I want to finish my education. Are there any other options? Is there any information I can ask the schools for regarding my rejection?
Megan,
This must be really frustrating for you.
You don’t mention your grades in law school – that might be part of the problem. Your personal statement, resume and LORs are also factors of course. You may have also picked schools that simply didn’t have much room for transfers this year. I’d urge you to cast a wider net.
Ann
PS If you’re looking for consulting help, I do have a special package for transfer applicants on my website.
Ann, I am willing to go anywhere. I am more or less desperate to go to a campus community because the city has been very overwhelming. I have in place letters of recommendation as well as my personal statement because I am ready to make the move, just as long as it’s realistic.
Ed, you may have missed the boat for transferring this summer…. most transfer decisions have been made. It happens very quickly in June and July. Call around and ask some schools you’re considering transferring to.
What shools should I target at this point?
Dear Ann,
I am currently at Seattle University School of Law and did well my first year. However, I had a hard time feeling happy since I moved from NYC to Seattle. I applied to transfer to Cardozo and got in. Now I finally feel comfortable in Seattle, but I still think that Cardozo is the better long-term career move? Do you think my career options will be larger with a Cardozo degree than one from Seattle U?
Mallory,
It all depends on where you hope to be a lawyer and live out your life. If you’re a New Yorker, head to Cardozo.
Dear Ann,
I am about to begin my 1L year at Atlanta’s John Marshall School of Law, a T4 school, and I was wondering what my goal should be to attempt to transfer to some more prestigious schools in the South East after this year. I am not looking for a T1 school, but something around T2 would be nice. Some of the schools I am looking at are the University of South Carolina, University of Georgia, or maybe even Georgia State. I like to have a goal and target in my head so any advice would be great.
Marcelo,
Great question! There is no way to set a goal “I’m going to be in the top 20 percent” versus “I’m going to be in the top 10 percent.” You need to do the best you can do in law school – if you feel you need a goal, aim to be #1 in your class.
Good luck!
Ok I understand that. Well then let me ask another question. When you look at UGA, USCarolina, and GA State, how do you feel about a T4 student trying to transfer in to those particular schools. Do I have a shot? Should I even apply if i am out of the top 15%?
Marcelo, you can call each of those schools and ask them what ranking requirement they would have from the school you will be attending. Schools will usually share that information.
Hi Ann,
I realize this question is a bit premature, but I am really trying to make sure I do whatever I can to make transferring work! I just started my 1L at a T4 (California Western) in San Diego (however I have been here since June, and took a Summer course they offered). I honestly love the school, but have realized that California is not for me. My husband and I would love to move back to Denver and I am hoping to transfer into DU law there. I am really nervous because I don’t know what to do about moving back to Denver before getting an answer from the school, and where to get an internship next summer. So, if Spring grades don’t come out for at least a month after finals, and they don’t get to the new school’s admissions committee until say mid-June, how long does it usually take for them to make a decision? It just sounds like a ton of pressure to make a decision to move back based on your chances, but also would be very difficult to wait until right before school started to be admitted and move. And, of course, I’d prefer to find an internship in Denver next summer. Do you have any advice for this situation? Also, I did email DU admissions and was only told that my first year GPA and ranking was far more important than undergrad grades and the LSAT, but not anything about what they would likely admit. Thanks for your help!
Hi Danielle, you hear back on transferring pretty quickly, usually within 2-3 weeks.
I think it’s very feasible to transfer from CW to DU, and I’m probably the only person on the planet who has worked at BOTH of those law schools!
Ann
Hi Ann, great site. I can’t seem to get my lsat score past pathetic. It’s frustrating because I am a good student normally. What is the likely hood, or have you heard of anyone attending Golden Gate Law and transferring to Boalt, Hastings, Davis?
Hi Drew. I think Hastings and Davis would be reasonable, but we’re talking like top 5% of your class here….. You can actually call Hastings and Davis and ask them what GPA/class rank they would want from Golden Gate. I’ve helped people transfer from Golden Gate in the past, and they’ve gone to some great schools, but it’s all about class rank. And a letter of rec from a willing faculty member too!
Hello Anne,
I have always had a passion for the law but somehow lost sight of that in my undergrad and under performed with below a 3.0 . I had a 2.8 in Business Management. After 2 years of working in sales I want to pursue my passion and attend law school . I now fear I may have blown my chances. I live in Denver and would like to attend DU. Do you think there is any chance of me getting in , if I work my tail off for the LSATS? Or do you have any advice in how I could give myself more of an edge for my application? I am willing to take the time and realize it may be a long journey.
Thanks for your hep.
Hi Carolyn,
If your LSAT puts you at or above DU’s 75th percentile then you can overcome the GPA with a strong application – great LORs and a personal statement and an addendum to show why the 2.8 doesn’t define your academic abilities. Find a good prep course or tutor (I have lots of recommendations on this site) and sign up for the December LSAT.
Hello Ann,
I am just writing with some general questions about transferring. I’m currently a 1L at the University of Miami – Florida, but I’m from Wisconsin and am considering making a move back to the midwest if my grades are sufficiently decent.
My main question is: How does one go about getting letters of recommendation for transferring schools from his/her law school professors? It seems that doing so will be very difficult since I don’t have much of a relationship with any of my professors and since they would have no basis for recommending me (because our grades are based on a single final exam).
Is it necessary to get professor recommendations when transferring? Does LSAC still have my old letters of recommendation (from undergrad professors) on file and, if so, can I just use those instead?
You can absolutely get to know a professor or two, Mike. They all have office hours.You’re going to need a LOR from a professor, even if its your Legal Writing instructor.
Hello Anne,
I’m a 1L at Hofstra University School of Law. I’m doing quite well (based on papers and two midterms) at Hofstra, but I hate Long Island and the school’s environment! I have no passion in pursuing a corporate, high-paying, slave hours job in NYC which this school is preparing me for.
I’m a student interested in both public interest and international law. Hofstra is not really known for a having a strong program in either fields.
I’d love a move back to Washington, DC or into NYC school that’s ranked higher and known for having a strong international program. Hofstra is a T2 school. I’m looking at transferring to a top 50 school.
I’m a 26 year-old black male with three years working experience in Washington, DC. I point this out to ask: (1) based off the little information I have given, does being a black male increase my chances of transferring into a prestigious program? (2) American University being my school of last choice, how well should I look to perform this year to be considered for a transfer next year. Or, put a different way, what’s the lowest I can be ranked and still look for a transfer to American U.? I met with a counselor at American U. not too long ago and she said “the school is desperate for black males; we can’t any good candidates?” i don’t know if that caveat makes any difference.
Hi Martin,
Yes, I think being a URM will help you transfer. I’m not sure what you mean that American is your school of last choice. I think that was probably a mistake. I think you should call American and ask what rank they are looking for from Hofstra.
Ann
Just to clarify: for lack of a better term, I did mean American my school of last choice meaning I would not be willing to transfer to a school that’s ranked any lower (they’re the bottom of the Tier I, I believe) than American U.
From reading the insight you provided to others, I look forward to hiring you for my transfer package when the time comes. Thanks for the great advice!
Martin
Hi Martin, I’ll look forward to hearing from you. Good luck this year!
Hi Ann! I can’t believe I haven’t checked your response until now.. Must have gotten busy reading
I just wanted to say how funny I thought it was that you have worked at both CW and DU! I inquired with DU admissions regarding their prospective transfers and the ranking they like to see their accepted transfer students meet, and they couldn’t give me any kind of answer. Since you are familiar with both, do you have any kind of idea to narrow it down for me? (Top 5%?, 15%?, 25%?) Thank you sooo much!
Danielle
Danielle, I can’t tell you for sure, but really all that matters is you do your best to be #1 in the class. You can’t shoot for “top 15″ but you can shoot to do your very best work….
Thanks again, Ann.. I will just stick to that plan! A difficult task for an obsessive planner like myself..
Hi Ann,
It has always been a dream of mine to attend a school like Stanford or Harvard. I feel I have somewhat of a chance to fulfill this dream since I’m now halfway through my first semester 1L year at a lower-ranked T14 school. I’m looking forward to five weeks from hell before those all-important mid-terms, to put it bluntly, and I hope that work will pay off in my being rewarded with a spot in the top one third of my class. From your experience how easy is it to transfer from a low-ranked T14 school to Harvard or Stanford? Everyone at my present school is hyper-competitive, so I’m probably being a bit too optimistic about my prospects of ending up at the top third. But is that ranking sufficient for a transfer to those two aforementioned schools? Or do I have to make it to the top ten percent even at a lower ranked T14? I’m also a first-generation college grad URM with an interesting background, if that helps to contextualize my situation.
For argument’s sake, let’s say I do end up at the top ten percent. I’ve also snagged a nice scholarship (not full ride but half-ride) from my present school. Is it silly for me to forgo free money at a lower ranked T14 to pay full price at a place like Stanford or Harvard? (I’m figuring they don’t give scholarships to transfer students despite their vast endowments)
I know that in comparison to past posters I’m just being greedy/extravagant in considering making a move. I should count my lucky stars that I’m in a T14 with a sizeable scholarship. I simply wanted your two cents on this matter since you’re knowledgeable about the whole process.
Thanks for any help you can furnish!
t_lhrh – Thanks for writing. I’ve worked with clients who transferred within the top 5 (from NYU to Stanford and Harvard) and I’m sure it’s possible from T14 (especially for a URM . I’d like to see you have a choice to make between the scholarship you have now and attending Stanford or Harvard. At least Harvard has a sliding loan repayment program…. The key is to do your best this year and then try. Only then will you know whether you made the grade for a transfer. Just try to make friends with a couple professors who might write you LORs. Many professors refuse to write letters to help people transfer.
Ann
PS You’re right about no scholarships from the school you transfer to.
Hi, I am currently at a Tier 3 Law School (UA-LR Bowen) and I want to transfer to a Tier-1 law school in Atlanta, GA for personal and academic reasons. If I am in the top 20% will I have a chance at Georgia State, UGA or Emory? I also have a pretty good scholarship at Bowen should I give that up for a better school?
Hi Nia,
I think Top 20% might be good enough for GSU, but not for UGA and definitely not for Emory. You should finish out this year and see how your grades/ranking look, then put in your transfer applications and see what happens. Then you can make the decision whether to leave your nice scholarship for one of those schools. Good luck on exams!
Hi Ann,
I’m a 1L at a Tier 4 school in California. I had been hoping to transfer to a school on the east coast, but my grades this semester only got me in the top 35% of my class. Do you think I could still transfer to any school, even another Tier 4?
Yes, Mike, you probably can. I actually have my next USNews.com article coming out on Monday and it’s all about transferring, so keep an eye out for it.
Hey Ann,
Im trying to get into University of Memphis law school or Howard Law school. Are these two schools good? Does going to a Tier 3 score significantly reduce my chances of obtaining a good job after law school?
I also have a 3.6 GPA, 149 LSAT score, great personal statement and letter of rec, and a great resume. What chances do you think I have to get into LSU law school , a Tier 2?
Chris, It’s not out of the question. If you’re local, they know you and like you, and your materials are as great as you say then it might happen but I just can’t say how likely it is without knowing a lot more about what makes your letters of rec, resume and PS great. After all, no one has ever told me that they have a lame personal statement or inadequate resume. Everyone tells me their materials are “Great”…LSU takes about 10% of people in the 145-149 bracket so it’s not impossible, it’s a reach. Good luck!
Hi Chris,
The question of whether a school is “good” depends on what you hope to accomplish with the degree. What do you consider a “good” job? If you’re in Memphis and plan to live in Memphis forever and you network well and plan to work in a smaller firm….then the school is “good” for you. Howard is also a school known for networking. It’s what you do with your time there that makes the difference in what you can do with your career. After all, one look at Memphis’ alumni page shows a few judges among their ranks so how “bad” a law school can it be? And Howard graduates are also doing interesting things. It’s about what expectations you have for your career and how you plan to achieve them.
Ann
Ann,
Thank you for your responses. I currently live in San Diego California but I ultimately want to practice law out of state. I would like to practice law in say Atlanta, Charlotte, New York, or DC. Is there anyway I could attend a school like California Western School of law (in San Diego) and then apply for work out of state? How difficult with that be? Does one have to go to law school in the state that they want to practice law ( I ask because it is obviously much easier to go to school in San Diego since I live here already)
ps: California Western is a 4th tier school. Does attending a school like this significantly curtail my job prospects? I always see people online saying that 4th tier schools have weak job prospects.
Chris, here’s my answer: My husband graduated from California Western 10 years ago and is now a partner in a 6-office California law firm.
Hi Ann, this is my first time coming across your website and may I say that you are doing a fine job and your ideas are right on point!
So I guess it’s time to get personal on this one. I am from Fort Lauderdale florida and attended Florida State University, ending up with a 3.51 GPA. I’ve taken the LSAT three times now, and they’ve been 149, 149, and 152 (respectively). I’m getting a little sick of taking that god forsaken test, so I’m about to go apply for schools. I am a realist and know that all the Tier 1 schools are out of reach at this point, so I’m going to bury my nose into Tiers 2-4.
I have a few questions: first, I am looking to go into sports law (contracts/business law, etc) and I really want to go to New York or stay in Florida, since those are my favorite sports markets and I want to take the bar in one of those states so I can practice there. I have a few ideas in mind of schools to start off with, namely Syracuse, Hofstra, St. Johns, New York Law (in NY), and UMiami, Stetson, and Florida Coastal (in FL). However, once I get into a school in that list, I was wondering how likely is it to transfer from those schools to a Cardozo, Brooklyn Law, or a Florida State, UFlorida?
In addition to that question, when it comes down to selection processes, I’ve noticed that some schools (for example Florida State Law) have GPA’s that are in my range (median 3.53) and yet their LSAT requirements (median 160) are out of reach for me. Can you tell me if it is even worth applying to these schools the first time around even though I don’t fall exactly under their medians for both categories?
I know that I have great LORs and I am crafting an awesome personal statement, so I guess my last question is…how out of reach are all these low T1, high-mid T1 schools from me? Am I doing the wrong thing by not even applying to Cardozo right of the bat? Am I safer trying to transfer? I know that I do much better when I actually have concrete material to study off of, so I have no doubt in my mind that once it comes time to transfer up, I will do it! Still, is it wrong of me to not even allow the top schools in my eyes to glance at my application?
Thank you so much in advance for all your help!
Sorry, thats low T1, high-mid T2 schools*
Hi Ann,
I’m a 2L at a first tier law school and so far my current GPA is a 2.5. I have a dilemma, I understand all my classes and I can cite the black letter law and apply it but the problem is that when I get back my grades, they are not what I expected. Am usually the one that everyone comes to when they need to understand a topic or find the rules. What am I doing wrong? I wrote most of my exams in law school except two class, can that be it? Also, how realistically is improving my grade to a 3.0 when I graduate?
Dear Ann,
I have completed my first semester at a T3 (U of Akron). I want to transfer back to a school in Texas where I’m from, however I underperformed my first semester (B’s and C’s). I do not mind transferring laterally or even lower. I am getting married in the summer and most of my family is from Texas. While I understand UT and maybe SMU might be out of the question, is Weslayan, UH, or even TT good shots to get into with the above stated reason? There were other factors that played into my low performance, but I wont whine about them here. I feel trapped (I don’t wish to stay, my future wife has an excellent job in DFW and can’t move, but I don’t want to quit or delay law school). Would it matter that Akron has a notoriously brutal curve policy (2 and 3L’s warned us during orientation week, a red flag I wish I had been made aware obefore accepting)? What options do I have at this point? All advice is much appreciated.
Ann,
About the curve policy…could I mention that there is only one 4. in the school across all levels or does that just look like an excuse I would be best served by leaving out?
Hi Ann,
I am a 23 year old white male from Texas in the process of applying to schools mainly in the northeastern region of the US and wondering at my prospects of transferring up to a tier 1/2 school in either the DC or NYC areas after a good 1L year. Though I had a low undergrad GPA (just below 3.0 area), I was counting on a good December LSAT based on my diagnostics (161-165 range). Sadly, I underperformed on test day and now am stuck with a 156. I debated whether to retake the test for next year’s applications, but having already worked for a year out of undergrad I decided it would be wiser to apply to lower tier schools now and see where I am in a year. I am applying to now to schools like NYLS, Hofstra, and St. John’s. I have also applied to both Rutgers’ schools and Loyola Chicago, but realistically don’t expect to get into those schools. I am wondering if being from Texas will give me an edge in applications? Most law school bound Texans usually stay in the state, so I don’t know how attractive my being from a different region will be to the northeastern schools I am applying to now and those I might transfer to in a year.
Hi Ann,
I love your responses and the style of the site, it is by far the most helpful site I have found in researching transferring. I am currently at a lower tiered school (Charlotte School of Law), which is only provisionally accredited (although the official accreditation visit was a couple months ago and it went well). I had mediocre 3.1gpa in undergrad and a mediocre LSAT (155). I didn’t do as well as I hoped I would my first semester here in Charlotte, and got a 2.5 gpa, however class ranks do not come out until the end of the year. I’ve realized that Charlotte isn’t for me and I would really like to transfer to Denver’s law school next year. I believe in one of your posts you mentioned that you worked at DU, so I am really hoping to get your opinion and advice about my possibilities. Also, if you think that transferring is a lost cause, what about Denver’s visitation year option?? Thank you so so much!
Hi Ann, I graduated from Georgia State last year with a 3.8 GPA and scored a 163 on the LSAT. I’m having a hard time deciding whether or not I should stay at Georgia State for law school and graduate with little to no debt, or attend a top 15 law school up north (Columbia, NYU, Georgetown) and graduate ~$120k in debt (assuming I get in). Part of me wants to stay in Atlanta because my cost of living is low and GSU is a “bang-for-your-buck” tier 1 law school; however, I keep thinking that I’ll be able to land a higher-paying job and have better overall career opportunities if I go to a higher-ranked school.
What are your thoughts on this?
Also, do you think it would be a good idea for me to go to GSU for my first year and then transfer, therefore lessening my debt by 1/3?
**Currently, I am not sure what type of law I want to practice or at what type of firm. I also don’t have a preference when it comes to where I will work/live after law school. My main goal is to graduate from a school that will provide me with the best/most career opportunities.
Thanks for your help and I look forward to your advice!
Hey Ann,
I included my honors thesis into my law school applications. It is one of my finest works. It is about 50 pages long. Do you think this will help my application?
Chris – Have a professor attest to the perfection of your thesis in a LOR or evaluation, but you cannot and should not send that with your applications.
Ann,
Unfortunately I already submitted it (with the honors thesis) about a month ago. It wont hurt my chances will it? I mean I figured that if the committee didnt want to read any part of it, they could just ignore it
Chris, if your credentials are strong for the school this shouldn’t kill your chances of acceptance….
Joy, this is a tough one. A lot of people will tell you to go to a T15 but I can’t guarantee you that the economy will enable you to pay back those loans (see my most recent blog post on this that links to a NYT article). I think scholarships are a great thing. Also, listen to some of my Blog Talk Radio show free podcasts – one on How to Get Hired as a Rookie Attorney (where Jaret Davis talks about taking a scholarship to a lower ranked school instead of going to the top 10 school) and also the one where I interview four attorneys who went to fourth tier schools through Yale and what they are doing with their careers.
Blair, I think you’re going to have a really tough time transferring to DU with those grades at Charlotte. You can call the school and ask about the visiting option but a lot of schools require you to show hardship if you couldn’t go to Denver – like you must have an important family reason to do this.
Dennis, being from Texas isn’t any particular advantage. In fact, you may need to convince NY area schools that you would actually attend and that this is where you want to be. If you do well in law school you’ll be able to transfer to a Top 1/2 Tier school but you really can’t bank on doing well in law school. If you had a 3.9 GPA I might say, yes, you’re someone who has a high likelihood of excelling in law school, but I can’t make that bet based on your GPA. I do think, overall, your current schools list is reasonable.
Manny, please seek out academic support services at your law school immediately. visit faculty office hours to go over exams and get a tutor if you need. It’s not about black letter law – anyone can memorize. It’s about issue spotting, reasoning, and writing. But don’t wait until you’re on academic probation to do something – be proactive! Good luck!
Max (and everyone else on this thread) please read my article on transferring on USNEWS.com (and read the comments too). http://www.usnews.com/blogs/get-in-law-school/2011/01/03/consider-this-before-you-transfer.html
You need to look at schools where your GPA is at the 75th percentile and your LSAT is at or right below the 25th percentile.
Good luck!
Hello Ann,
I was wondering if there a difference of applying to transfer after 1L or is it the same if one would apply spring of 2L year?
Brandon, I am not aware of programs that allow transfers half way through law school….
Hey Ann,
1st semester avg 2.8 from stetson law do you think I can get into New York law School if i wanted to transfer?
Thanks
Brandon Wright,
People who I know of who transferred to NYLS were in the top 30 percent of their class. I don’t know the curve at Stetson, but it’s a good law school compared to some others and I think you should really try to pull your grades up this semester to try to transfer to NYLS. Good luck!
thanks for your input!
Hey Ann,
I have another question what schools in New York do you think I would have the best chance getting into with my numbers?
Thanks
I attend a regional school ranked approx. 50. I’m in the part-time program but will have finished all 1st year credits by May. After the fall semester, my GPA is .04 below last year’s top 10% ranking. To maintain my GPA or higher, I’d probably need 2 As next semester.
I would like to transfer or use a transfer acceptance to get a better scholarship at my current school. Is it a good idea to apply to the Early Action transfer program at Georgetown with my current GPA?
I’m most interested in transferring to either Columbia or NYU. I do not have big law aspirations but would like to be competitive for post-grad fellowships and clerkships. I’m URM/non-traditional.
Thank you in advance for your reply.
Hi Ann,
I have finished my first semester at NYLS with a GPA of 2.56 and want to know If I do great next semester and get a 2.8 or higher , do I have any chances of transferring out to other schools like Rutgers, Seton Hall, St Johns?
Thanks in advance Ann
m.chance-rollins,
You can certainly try the GT early transfer program but I’m not sure how that’s going to translate into a scholarship at your current school. I tend to believe there is something to be said for being a big fish in a smaller pond… but maybe that’s just me. I just spoke to one of my former clients who transferred from a top 50 to Colombia and I think he regrets it a bit….. But it’s always nice to have the option.
David, transferring isn’t for everybody. If that’s all you can do at NYLS, a school with more competitive admission standards is not going to be tempted by you…. Sorry to be blunt. I think too many people think transferring is automatic and easy, and that’s not the case. I tell people this because I want them to be wise about where they decide to attend their first year because most likely that’s where they will graduate from.
Hi Ann,
I was wondering what law school in the NYC area or new york state that takes the most transfer applicants or are the most open to taking transfer students?
thanks,
sincerely,
manny
Ann,
LOVE the feedback you are giving people! This forum is very informative.
I am a 1L at the University of San Francisco in California. I am in my spring semester now, but as for my fall GPA I received a 3.38, which according to the most recent percentiles (June 2010) puts me in the top 20%. I want to apply to transfer to the higher tiered schools in the northern california i.e. Hastings, Boalt, or Davis. If I stayed in the top 20% by the end of my 1L, what are my chances?
I currently attend Brooklyn Law and got a 3.35 GPA my first semester. I’m not exactly sure where that ranks me in my class since my class rankings don’t come out until the end of my first year. I was looking into transferring to one of the other higher ranked New York law school. Is Fordham a reach for me. If so, what GPA would make my candidacy more viable?
Manny, you can find that information in the ABA LSAC Official Guide to US Law Schools.
Thanks, Randy! There’ve been a lot of comments this week but I’m trying to respond to each one promptly. Glad it’s helpful.
I think you have a shot. Aim for a little bit higher….. Hastings or Davis could happen. Boalt would be tougher – my guess is they are just taking the top 1 or 2 people from Hastings even….
Good luck! You’re doing great!
Chris Anderson, if you call Fordham, they should tell you (if they’re being nice). My guess is you need to be in the top 5% or so since everyone and their brother would be trying to do the same thing you are….
How much do you charge to help with the application for transfer? Do you reject people if you don’t think their school is plausible for their numbers?
Hi Manny,
I turn away more people than I take. There is information on my website about packages. Just click on “Consulting” above.
Ann,
This website is awesome!
Huge dilemma, I am applying to law schools. Maybe I shouldn’t count my chickens before they hatch but I want a good plan “b”. I have 3.42 GPA and 155 LSAT. Top choices for schools are University of Utah and Uni of Washington. With my gpa and lsat I am nervous about my chances of getting in. I have applied to several other schools t3 and t4.
In your experience, if I could get a full tuition scholarship or more at a t4 or t3 school, would graduating debt free and “top of class” generally bear more weight than graduating from a low t1 or t2 school?
Additionally, I applied to Phoenix School of Law. They are not ranked but it seems to me that they should be or will be soon because they became ABA accredited in June 2010. Do you think they will become a tier 4 school or is some other reason that would make them remain non ranked?
Last question. I’ve also considered studying at a lower ranked school and get a full scholarship and then transfer for 2nd year to a low t1 school like U of U.
Thanks for what you do.
Austin,
The answer depends upon your career goals and where in the country you hope to practice law….
Ann,
That’s a good question. I am from the Northwest and would love to settle there. However after law school I really wouldn’t mind settling down anywhere in the West. It will all depend on where I get job offers. I plan on doing a JD/MBA joint degree and all the schools I applied to, except for Phoenix doesn’t have one.
While law school could change my whole career path, at this point I want to practice business/corporate law. I am not looking for an ivy league salary but would want to be somewhere with a strong enough background to start at 80K at least.
Oops I meant all the law schools I applied to have a jd/mba program, except for Phoenix.
Hey Ann,
I recently applied to Howard Law school and I cant figure out if it is a tier 3 school or tier 4 school. What Tier is it? Do you know if this school is a respectable law school?
According to USNEWS, it’s in the 3rd tier (2010 edition)
Hello Ann,
I just finished up my first semester at a lower tier 2 school in the DC area. I finished with a 3.599 GPA, which based on last years decile would put me in the top 10% of my class(3.5-3.88). I would really like to transfer to GULC, but I am not sure whether I should apply early action or if I should wait until the spring. Any thoughts?
Thanks!
I’m at a T4 with a very low curve and thinking of transferring next year; however my first semester grades aren’t as good as I hoped they would be. 2.87 booked Legal writing, 207 out of 703. Any thoughts if I can get into FSU still or possible Stetson? Any other suggestions?
Hi Marissa,
That’s great that you booked legal writing. You can try, but you will probably need to bring all of your grades up this semester.
Steve Z: Try now.
Hi Marissa,
I am a 1L at Cooley and my goal is to transfer out to either Valpo or John Marshall Chicago. Do you think it is possible? I am from Chicago and although I was accepted to other Tier 4′s, I chose Cooley because it is closer to home. I just started this term and want to transfer out ASAP. Would this type of lateral transfer require a 4.0 or for me to be in the top 10% of my class? I am only taking classes part time this term so that I can focus on getting good grades and getting out.
Thanks!
* Ann, sorry!
Hi Ann!
I’m at Cooley and just got my first term grades. I am in the top 20% of my class. Any chance of getting into Golden Gate, Thomas Jefferson or University of SF?
Thanks!
Hi Anne,
I’m currently in a tier 1 school looking to transfer. My dream school is GULC, but I don’t know if its even practical to try. I got a 2.9 my first semester, all Bs. I know that Georgetown wants a 3.3-3.7 range or a top 15% of class, neither of which I fit. I have a high IQ but I have a learning disability, so school has always been extremely difficult for me, and law school is certainly no different. I’m a gifted writer though (I’m sorry, I’m not trying to be pompous), and I’m fairly certain its what got me into the school I go to now (because my undergrad grades weren’t impressive either.)
My question is this: Do I have any chance of transferring to a school like Georgetown, or maybe somewhere else in the top 25, if my grades are not fantastic but my personal statement is a magnum opus and I have at least 1 very good LOR? I’m aiming for early action. I would wait another semester to try and get my grades up but truthfully I really don’t think they are going to go up much, if at all, it kind of goes with the territory of having a learning disability. I feel like the sooner I apply the better my chances. What do you think?
Also, I have an unusual background: Grew up in rural ohio, born in a log cabin, first generation college grad, Dual citizen of Holland, all of which I mention in my personal statement.
Lastly, should I try to get as many LORs as possible?
Oh, and I talk at length about having an LD in my personal statement. Would that garner any help, or does that make me look weak?
Hi Rosie,
Do as well as you can with grades. You will probably only be eligible to transfer to other part time programs – it depends on how many credits you will have when you transfer. Call Valpo and JM and ask them how they treat Cooley transfers, ok?
Jack,
Let’s start with the easy thing first – it’s not about quantity with the LORs, it’s about quality. You need a law professor to write on your behalf.
I worry that your “magnum opus” has way too much – talking about how you grew up, dual citizen, and learning disability? The thing is that with transferring, it’s 80% about your grades and class rank (maybe 90%) and the rest is your resume, letter of rec, and a good, professional personal statement that enumerates reasons why transferring makes sense for you.
I think with your GPA you’re going to have a tough time transferring. The logic (of the evaluating school) is that if you only got a 2.9 at School X, you would do far worse at school Y if the students came in with higher LSAT scores and GPAs.
Ann
Hi Ann,
Im a 1L at a T4 and was thinking about transferring to NYU or U of Chicago. I got a 3.96 my first semester which I assume is top 5 in the class. I also have a good work resume and strong undersgrad. Do I have a chance at getting in or am I wasting my time?
Thnx
Dear Anne,
I’m 23 years old, and I’m currently working as an English Teacher in China. I came straight out of college and been here for about a year and half. I want to go law school but my GPA from undergrad is low ( Below 3.0) and I also did really bad on the LSAT. I took it two times, but still have been stuck with a score of a 135. I’m not sure what to do. I want to go to Law School and know that I can excel once I’m there, however, my low GPA and low LSAT, is singing another tune. Do you think its still possible to be accepted some where ? I’m sure I’m going to have to apply for T4 school, but I’m worried my grades are just too awful for that. I’m thinking about applying to get my certificate in Paralegal studies and then reapply to Law School,and retaking the Lsats, what are some of your thoughts, or school suggestions.
Sinclair, it’s worth a shot!
Jason, you can try but it’s highly unlikely.
Sammie, your LSAT is a huge problem. That’s the most important thing for you to fix.
Hey Anne,
How hard is it to transfer into FIU?
Hi Ann,
My first semester GPA was a little over a 3.9. While my school doesn’t rank until after the second semester, last year’s full year 10% cutoff was around a 3.6, so if that’s any indicator I think I’m in good shape. My current school is upper T2. I want to apply EA to GULC. I’m wondering how much of a chance I have, and whether the lack of a “rank” will negatively impact my chances.
Thanks for your help!
Hi ann, i am a student at NIU law and i just got my first semester grades back and i got a disappointing (1.8 , c-’s) i would like to apply as a visiting student at my hometown law school in orlando (famu or Barry) my first question is would it be a good reason to inform the school that one of my core reasons for applying a visiting student is because of financial hardship and second i plan on pulling my grades up but is it still possible to apply for summer session at another school based on my current gpa?
Hi Ann,
I’m a 1L at a lower ranked 1st tier state school. I really like my school but I’ve always wanted to go to NYU which is the alma mater of a close relative. Right now I feel my chances of transferring are not bad as I’ve got about a 4.0 gpa, I’m a student of color, and I’ve got a legacy (not sure how helpful a sibling is in comparison to a parent though). That being said, I’ve also got a pretty nice scholarship and my current tuition is about half of NYU. So I’d end up with about twice the debt if I transferred to NYU. So my questions are, do you agree with my that my chances are solid, and if so, is it even worth it to transfer given that I’m getting a good bargaiin at my current school?
Hi Ann,
I was one of the ppl with a decent LSAT score at 156 which is nothing to brag about but much above Cooley entrance standard, in fact I think I could have gotten into some T2 schools off the bat! I went to Cooley for all the wrong reasons eg. scholarship, starting in January, close to family (I blame myself since I did not do my research on law school properly). I would like to think of myself as a rare example of a T2 student who was in a T4 school.
I did pretty decent first year with a 2.94 and transferred out to Cleveland State which is a T3 n started this January which isn’t much but still way better than Cooley.
Based on my final marks which I just received I have a 2.96 in total which isnt much anywhere else but is an accomplishment at Cooley seeing as that put me in the top 30%- 28% to be exact.
However, I do not want to stay in Cleveland (T3) either. What do you think my chances are for transferring to Florida State University (which from my research accepts a lot of transfer students and requires you be in the top 1/3 of your class), U Miami, and U Houston all T2 schools? Hopefully that would be the final move for, moved up the ladder slowly but got there!
Thanks.
Adam
Hi Ann,
I’m a student at a lower ranked top 100 school. My GPA is about 3.9 and I’m a minority student. I’m thinking of applying to NYU where my sister attended. Do you think I have a shot?
Thanks
Will – try!
Adam, congrats on your first transfer. I have to say I’ve never heard of anyone transferring twice……
Will, you can try. If you try then you’ll have a real decision to make. You’ll have to weigh the finances and see what you’re willing to bet on a degree from NYU versus where you are.
Alisha,
Try!!!
No one has a rank until after the first year – GULC knows this. Your grades are great! Good luck!
Hi,
I’m currently at a T1 school with a 3.6 GPA (we don’t have our rankings or grade distributions yet). I’d like to try and transfer back to the east coast where I’m from. I’m not as happy in the region that my school is located in as I would have hoped, and it isn’t the region in which I want to work after I graduate. I came for a high-ranking specialization the school has, and now I’m not certain I want to specialize in that anymore. Also, I would like to go back to the east coast where I’m from and work in public policy and I think schools there would give me more opportunities.
What are the chances of transferring into the top schools in DC and some NYC schools, like GULC, GW, and Fordham. I’m also going to try and transfer down in ranking to George Mason, American, and Cardozo. Any thoughts?
Jill, your grades are good. ABsolutely give it a shot at those schools. I think you raise a great point – people pick areas of specialization and make big decisions based on that, but then things change…
Well hopefully I will be the first student you’ve heard of that transferred twice!
I got out of Cooley as soon as I possibly could and transferred 30 credits here to Cleveland State. Since Florida State transfers a maximum of 45 credits I don’t see why it would not be possible. The other schools I’m willing to lose a few credits. Any idea on the strength of top 30% class rank at Cooley would have on sending apps to FSU, UMiami and Houston?
Thanks again,
Adam
Hi Anne,
I have a low UGPA (2.78) and low LSAT score of 147. I also went ahead and got a Masters in Political Science from Johns Hopkins University but did not get a GPA from the program. What do you think my chances are as far as getting into Law School? I still intend on applying to UDC this year but what other schools come to mind as far as a realistic option for folks like myself. I do intend on taking the LSAT for the third time. I think my new work schedule allows more time to study/ take prep courses such as Kaplan.
I do intend on transferring after my 1L year as I am confident I will do well so choice of school does not matter at this point. My grades during undergrad were as a result of many factors I could not control. I intend to mention this in a personal statement.
Currently 1L at tier 4. Disappointed in 1st semester grades. Standing at a 3.3 and top 19%. Undergrad had a 4.0. Any viable chance at getting into the U of I. Illinois resident. Wanting to transfer there, but dont want to waste my time if they will not consider my application
Thanks,
Rex
Rex, try. All you lose is the application fee.
Sammie,
I have a few concerns outside of the low numbers and lack of graduate grades (but at a great university so I’m hoping you have brilliant LORs from faculty members). One concern is whether you’re applying for Fall 2011 or Fall 2012 – I hope it’s 2012.
Also, it makes me nervous when people tell me how confident they are of being able to transfer, especially with no history of great performance in the classroom. It’s important to be realistic about your prospects. Everyone seems to think they are the exception to the rule, and that’s of course not the case.
Ann
Dennis from Texas,
Apply to Seton Hall Law, you have a good chance of admission. I’m there and I absolutely love it. I had a 159/3.6 and I recieved a 2/3 scholarship. It’s a wonderful school, way better than Rutgers.
I just want to be clear that the AnnL comment is not from me but from a reader.
Ann,
In terms of applying for as visiting students, do schools generally accept the applications or are they as critical as transfer student applications? I see that the application process is generally the same, but what do they consider on visiting student application? It would be to an equivalent tier school, but there’s more demand for that school than the one I am currently attending. Thank you in advance.
Hi Ann,
I am a 1L at a T4 school. My below potential GPA and LSAT score landed me here. I finished the fall semester with a 3.7, ranked in the top 10% of my class. I am wondering what the possibility of transferring to either UConn Law, St. Johns, or New York Law would be. Thanks so much.
Sue – that’s great!!!! Yes, I think you’re in the running!
John Jun,
Visiting is a whole other can of worms. Usually schools want to hear about a real necessity for you to be in that geographic location and a job or wife won’t usually do it. You have to show an emergency in most cases.
http://thomas-cooley-law-school-scam.weebly.com/
Thomas Cooley Law School exposed!!
Ann,
I currently attend a T25 school and have a GPA just above what is typically the top 10% cutoff marker. So by the end of the year, I will most likely be somewhere around the top 8%-15% of my class based on my 2nd semester grades. My goal is to transfer to one of Columbia, NYU or Penn. Do my numbers make me competitive for such a transfer? Also, does URM status factor into transfer admissions? I am hispanic and quite active in the hispanic community, but I’m not sure if that is the sort of thing that they will even care to know when I apply. Thank you for your help.
Brody, I definitely think you’re in the running and URM status will help.
Ann,
I am currently a 1L at Suffolk and after fall grades I’m in the top 23% of my class. I am originally from CA and would like to go back. I’m thinking Southwestern…would I have a chance since this is a lateral transfer? Thanks.
Hi Ann,
I have just gained admittance to Temple, Brooklyn, and Villanova. I have my heart set on Columbia, NYU, Georgetown or Cornell; still waiting on these schools to respond. I studied undergrad at UPenn, but underachieved on my LSAT to hit mid-160′s.
Given that I do not get into the 4 schools above, and that I receive top marks at Temple or Brooklyn; do I have a decent chance of transferring to one of the 4 schools listed above? And if so, will they accept all of my credits gained at a Temple or a Brooklyn? Thanks for your time Ann.
Scott
Also, would it be easier to transfer from a U Georgia or a UNC which are more highly ranked; given I would perform equally well at those institutions? Thank you again Ann.
Scott
Hi Shawn,
It’s not out of the question – give it a shot!
Scott, this all depends on your grades/class rank during your 1L year. Credit acceptance wouldn’t be an issue. I’ve worked with a lot of people at top 100 schools who have transferred into Georgetown – the top 5 schools are a bit more tough from a T100.
Yes, Scott, the ranking of the institution you are transferring from does matter.
Hi Ann,
I’m currently a 1L at Southwestern. My undergrad gpa was a 3.52 with a 152 LSAT, but I rocked my first semester grades at Southwestern with a 3.934 (all A’s and one A-). What are my chances of transferring from T3 to T1 (UCLA, USC, UC Hastings, etc.- in CA)? Is that realistic?
Hi Ann,
I have received acceptance letters from several law schools. I was offered a scholarship by Charlotte School of Law which is provisionally accredited. I’m finding it really tempting; however, if I chose to transfer after 1L, would I find takers? Appalachian is another school I was accepted to. I guess my question is would I be stuck at these schools even if I excelled during my 1L. I’m planning to graduate from any law school I attend 1L, but hopeful to transfer.
Arlene, it could happen! One of my clients last year transferred from Southwestern to USC.
Anderson, I think it will be hard to transfer from either of these schools, and it’s never a good idea to start law school feeling like you would NEED to transfer because if it doesn’t work out, you will be stuck.
Hi Ann,
I recently finished my first semester at a T4, non ranked, and provisionally accredited school. I am currently in my second semester. My undergrad GPA was 3.9, my LSAT was 152, and my current GPA is 3.7 (2 A’s, 2 A-’s, and a B+ in a writing course). What are the chances of transferring to Duke, UNC Chappel Hill, or U. of South Carolina? Thanks for your help!
Hi Matt,
Congratulations on doing so well during your first semester of law school. I think U. South Carolina is the most feasible of the three you mentioned – it’s probably unrealistic to try to transfer to a top ranked school….
Hi Ann,
I am interested in transferring from a T4 school (Salmon P. Chase at Northern Kentucky) to a T1, the University of Kentucky. I finished my first year in the top 10 of my class (or top 15%). My LSAT was a 151 and my GPA is 3.3. I have worked my whole 1L as a clerk and have gained some great experience. Is it worth the effort of putting together a transfer package or I will be wasting my time?
Thanks!
Hi Cate, it all depends on where you’d be trying to transfer to….
Sorry if that wasn’t clear. I would be trying to transfer to the University of Kentucky.
Which, I believe is actually a T2, not a T1.
My LSAT was low, but my undergrad and graduate GPA are high, both over 3.5. I got into Touro Law for the Fall 2011 semester. Would it be possible to transfer from Touro to Hofstra Law after one year at Touro?
Jessica, it would be possible if your grades and class rank are near the top. You can inquire with Hofstra about any standards they might have for transfers (top 20%, top 10%, etc.)
Thank You!
Hi Ann, I’m applying this cycle to Virginia publics and lower-tiered D.C. schools and will hear back from some shortly. My UGPA from UVA is probably not competitive enough for UVA, WM, and GMU. So I will likely accept admission, if offered, from Howard, American, or U of D.C. Assuming I finish 1L with solid grades above the top 10%, do I have a decent shot at the Virginia publics? Note: I have a Virginia Veteran’s Ed. Scholarship waiving tuition and fees at a Virginia public, which is why I am desperate to get in either of those. Thanks
Brittney,
I think it’s feasible, yes.
Hi Ann, I am applying to law school for this fall semester and cannot tell you how helpful your advice has been! I was just wondering if you could help me with my specific situation. I have a low UGPA-a 2.89 and an average LSAT score-a 152. I live in Texas but am applying to fourth tier law schools in california, new york and florida as well as to ones in TX. I am applying to mostly 4 tier schools with the assumption that I don’t really have a shot of getting in anywhere else. I eventually want to live and practice in Texas and would love to transfer to someplace like Texas Tech or SMU. Knowing my UGPA and LSAT score, do you think it will be possible for me to transfer to a higher ranking school (2nd or thrid tier?) Also, do Texas law schools prefer transfter students who are currently enrolled in other Texas schools? I am unsure if my attending a California school will be detrimental to my transfering to a Texas one next year. Thank you!
Hi Layla, I’m so happy the blog has been helpful for you. For transferring, it will all come down to your grades in law school. It’s hard for me to tell someone with a low UGPA that they are likely to be in the top 10% of their law school class at any law school, though, especially with an average LSAT score. I think you need to pick a law school you’d be happy graduating from – you can’t count on being able to transfer. If you are able to transfer, great, but you can’t count on that. And if you’re away from TX when you really should be in TX for personal reasons then you are likely to be distracted in law school and not able to concentrate. (This doesn’t happen to everyone but can be a factor for some).
Hi Ann,
I just want to first reiterate what Layla said above, this blog has been extremely helpful. I was wondering what my chances are at a certain school, as well as how to draft personal statement for transfer. I go to BC Law, and love it there but would like to attempt a transfer to Gtown. We only have 3 grades in, but I have a 3.33 which lands me somewhere in the top 35%ish i think. I’m racing to apply early action, with an expectation that I will probably be deferred (you think I’m right on that? I called Gtown per your advise above and they wouldn’t budge on telling me where someone from BC would have to be to be a serious candidate, only that they “weigh” the ranking of the school and its competitiveness into their decision).
My main question is what to say in this personal statement. One of the large reasons I want to transfer is that Gtown has a joint degree program with the harvard kennedy school (which has been my dream school all my life). But it’s not like that is the only reason, I went to GW undergrad and Gtown was my number one realistic choice last year as well b/c of its international focus and proximity to the capitol. I’m sure I would want to emphasize the latter, but am unsure as what to do with the former reason for my transfer (telling a school you in part want to go there b/c you want to go to another school is weird).
Thank you so much for your time!
Hi Ann,
I am a current 1L at Barry University. I am hoping to transfer into FSU or possibly UF. My law school GPA is a 2.95, but my school curves to a 2.5. However, I am currently in the top 25% of my class after 1 semester and I think that I have a shot at moving up in the rankings this semester. My undergrad GPA and LSAT scores are 3.0 and 155. Do I stand a shot at moving up? Also, would you recommend transferring into a better ranked school where you will likely not make Law Review or stay with a Tier-4 school where your chances of making Law Review are pretty solid? Thank you for your help. Richard
Hi Rich,
Let me answer the second question first. I actually do not think the question is about law review -it’s about jobs. It’s about whether you are networking and hustling and making contacts. If you make law review, then great, but that’s only because it can help you get certain jobs if you market yourself appropriately.
If you are able to transfer to FSU or UF, I think you’d be better off. But I think you’ll need to continue working on those grades this semester and being in the top 25% won’t be enough. I wish you all the best – let us know if we can help.
Hi Frank. This is a popular question since GT has a unique early transfer program. I think that you’ll probably need to get your grades closer to top 20 percent or higher to be a serious contender. I’d be happy to speak with you about this – I can’t advise you what to write about in your personal statement over the blog format but we do offer a transfer package (currently discounted through the end of the month) and personal statement help for transfer applicants.
Hi Ann,
I have a sort of unique issue at hand. I am currently a second semester senior at UW-Madison. I got a 162 on the LSAT, and my cumulative GPA is currently a 3.25 (a bit low for my liking). Here is the problem: I slacked academically during my freshman year of college and got some pretty terrible grades. I turned my act around halfway through sophomore year, and I have now had 4 consecutive semesters of a 3.65 or higher, including one 4.0. My goal is to go to Northwestern for law school, but I didn’t bother to apply since I knew that, as I stand, I would be rejected. I did, however, get into Loyola Chicago, Chicago-Kent, and DePaul. I got very large scholarships at 2 of these 3 schools, and a modest scholarship at the other. I’m wondering, if I go to one of these schools for my 1L and get stellar grades, would a transfer to Northwestern be feasible? Moreover, should I retake the LSAT in hopes of transferring? My practice tests (2 per week during the month leading up to the test) were never below a 164, so odds are that I could do better than a 162 if I retook the test let’s say in June, when I will be done with undergrad and can focus all of my attention on the LSAT. Overall, what I’m asking is do I have a shot at transferring into Northwestern after my 1L at one of those other Chicago schools? Also, I am wait-listed at UW-Madison Law. If I get in, would it put me in a better position to transfer to Northwestern if I go to UW for a year since it’s a tier 1 school? Thank you so much, any advice you have for me would be great.
Vera,
You don’t have to retake the LSAT for transfer purposes. Even if you wanted to wait a year and retake the LSAT to reapply I don’t think your practice scores show a high likelihood of improvement since you scored within 2-4 points of your practice exams (unless you left out some important information about your LSAT practice scores). My first pick for you would be UW-Madison. After that, go for the scholarship and work your butt off to get fantastic grades in law school. That way, your worst case scenario is being a bigger fish in a smaller pond (and a big fish with little debt, allowing you your choice of jobs upon graduation!) and you may also find yourself with the opportunity to transfer to your dream school. I wish you all the best!
Hi Ann,
I took the Feb lsat and got a low score of 151, however I do have a 3.77 GPA. I have applied to all schools in the metro DC area for their part-time program. My question is that if I only get into UDC should I go there and transfer out or should I reapply next year? I have to stay into the DC area because my company is paying for me to go to school part time. Also do other DC schools take transfer applicants from UDC? I’ve heard mixed answers about this question.
Uma
Hi Uma, I have a few thoughts for you:
1. I think you would do much better applying early in the cycle than now with a late application.
2. I think you are great in the classroom, which shows real potential for excelling in law school and either being a big fish in a small pond or being able to transfer to a bigger pond.
3. My preference would be for you to apply early next year, and perhaps consider whether you have potential to improve your LSAT score in the meantime.
Ann
Hey Ann,
As an undergrad I was unfocused and immature, which is reflected in my GPA (2.4). I had a decent LSAT (163) and was accepted to some lower ranked schools. I realize that my ability to transfer is contingent upon my performance as a 1L, but I was wondering if it was feasible to transfer from Cumberland Law to the University of Alabama. I’d appreciate any insight you might offer! Thanks!
Deanne, if you do really well at Cumberland, it’s entirely possible. 4 people transferred out of Samford and 11 people transferred in to Alabama last year.
Dear Ann,
I am just finishing up undergrad and have been accepted to both Charlotte School of Law & New England Law I Boston (both T4 schools). What I am wondering is which school would present the best job opportunitites after graduation from law school? and if I was in the top 5% of my class after my L1 year would it be possible to transfer to a T2 or T1 school? and if it is which of the two above schools would allow the best opportunity to transfer? Charlotte is a new law school that is only provisionally accredited at this time, but expects full accredidation this summer and New England Law I Boston is an older law school that has been around for over 100 years and is fully accredited. I appreciate your feedback.
Thanks,
Matt
Hi Matt,
First, I want to be clear that Charlotte isn’t yet ranked, but I agree that it will be a 4th tier school when it is ranked.
The thing I want to emphasize is how difficult it is to be in the top 5% of any law school’s class. People think if they work harder than they’ve ever worked, they will be at the top of their class. But in law school EVERYONE works harder than they’ve ever worked, so only 5% of the people who are working hard are in the top 5% of the class.
IF you do end up being at the top of your class, I think you’ll be able to transfer to a Top 100 school from either law school. But I mean top. Not top half or top third….
Good luck in law school!!!!
Hi Ann,
I am so glad this thread was revived again this year. It has been very helpful, but I still have a bit of a conundrum.
I am at Univ. of San Diego and like the school well enough, but would really like to transfer back to Northern California for family reasons.
I have a partial merit scholarship here (renewable) but feel that getting in to Davis or Hastings might still be worth taking the financial hit. My dream of course is Boalt Hall or even going back to UCLA, but I have suspicions that they are well out of my reach.
Coming in to USD I had a 164/3.67 from UCLA but after my first semester here I am looking at a 3.24 (they haven’t ranked us yet but it is likely that might only put me in the top 30%). Hopefully I can get up to the top 20%, but if not it would be nice to know if even applying is worth the potential drawbacks (ie. OCI/Summer Grants restrictions/write-ons, etc.)
Given your previous comments about having strong cut-offs for transfers, I am concerned that missing the rank cut-off by even a little would so seriously damage my application. Would it be prudent to not risk applying unless I am at least in the top 20%?
What about for a lower ranked school like Santa Clara?
Sincerely,
Daphne
Daphne,
There is no reason not to try applying just because you may not make a “cutoff” – you can still try. I don’t think it would be worth it to transfer to Santa Clara because you’ll lose your scholarship. Of course, if you will be living with family members and have decreased costs and more access to jobs where you want to live then it might be worthwhile. Keep working on your grades and try the transfer applications and see what happens.
Ann
Hi Ann,
I am a 1L at a T4 in MI. I am applying to transfer to FSU starting this summer semester. My LSGPA is 3.3(Deans List/Honor Roll) with a class rank in the top 16%. I have 2 strong letters of rec. from law school professors in whose classes I made A’s, as well as a very strong letter from a UG professor. My transfer statement cites the opportunities unavailable to me at my present institution, as well as schools location in the capitol city and affiliation w/ a research university as the main reasons. There are a number of great opportunities for legal scholarship and research at FSU as well as an excellent program and faculty in environmental law. I am a FL resident and the close proximity to my family coupled with the nice in-state tuition rates make FSU an extremely desirable law school for me.
What do schools take into account when making decisions? Is the fact that I am applying for the summer term helpful to my cause? Please give me your professional evaluation of my case. Thanks so much, your page has been vastly helpful!
Zac, it sounds like you’re applying to the right school for the right reasons. I can’t comment on whether FSU takes transfers more easily in the summer than the fall, because in most cases a school wants to see your entire 1L grades before admitting you as a transfer and you won’t have your grades in time for summer session. Your class rank and ties to FL and real reason for wanting to be at FSU should serve you very well. Other good news: Last year, FSU took 61 transfers (that’s a lot!)
Ann,
My name is Zach, and I currently a 1L in day division at the Pacific McGeorge School of Law (“McGeorge”). Here is my story and predicament. As an undergrad I graduated suma cum laude from the University of San Francisco. In the course of my LSAT prep my practice test scores were between160 and 170. However, come test day I scored a 154. Because I did not want to endure the stress induced by the studying again I went ahead and applied. McGeorge was the only Tier 1 school that admitted me and I was given no scholarship money. I am in a section here at McGeorge that does Torts in one semester and Civ Pro in one (I know most schools do some form of this, however this is an exepriment here). My grades to this date are as follows: Torts Final Grade: A-, Legal Writing to date (year long course): A, Property Midterm: B+, Contracts Midterm: B-, Civ Pro Spring Midterm: A+, Criminal Law (Spring Class): Pending. McGeorge uses a scale which begins with a 4.3 for an A+ and descends. I figure my GPA at this point would be around 3.3–3.6, but have not done the math. From what I have gathered, this would likely place me within the Top 25%-10% respectively. I would like to transfer because if I am to pay full price it would behoove me to graduate from the best school (in the context of ranings) possible. I would like to transfer either to UC Hastings, UC Davis or UCLA. Assuming that I get into the top 15-5% range would I have a decent chance of transferring to any of these schools?
Ann,
Sorry I meant Tier 2 for McGeorge.
Zach, yes, I think that if you were in that range you should have a shot at these schools. Keep up the good work with your grades!
Hello Ann,
Your blog is highly informative – thank you. I recently emigrated to the US and missed most application deadlines for 2011. (I was an attorney abroad and didn’t anticipate having to return to law school.) Which do you think is a wiser route: (i) apply to Emory, GSU or UGA for 2012; or (ii) apply to John Marshall (T4) for 2011 in the hope I can try to transfer in 2012 to Emory etc? My instinct is the former, but I would appreciate your view as someone who knows what she is talking about!
Roo, I would wait and apply in the fall to schools you actually hope to attend. Transferring from a T4 to Emory is highly unlikely.
Thanks Ann for the swift and candid response.
Dear Ann,
I have decided to attend a part time Tier 4 law program. I am wondering if part time law students can transfer to other law schools after 1L? If so, would a Tier 2 part time/full time law program be out of the question even if I excelled in my 1L.
Dear Ann,
I have decided to attend a part time Tier 4 law program. I am wondering if part time law students can transfer to other law schools after 1L? If so, would a Tier 2 part time/full time law program be out of the question even if I excelled in my 1L
Hi Ann,
I am currently 20 years old and graduating with a Bachelors from the University of Maryland. I have received a full scholarship to Whitter, and a partial scholarship to St. Thomas. I was accepted to other schools, but $40,000 a year is not an option financially because I do intend to transfer. I am planning on practicing in New York and therefore hoping to transfer after my 1Y. Whittier is close to home and I would be able to commute, but I have ill feelings about enrolling in a state so different from New York. Am I better off going to St. Thomas if I want to transfer to NY? Should I take the scholarship? I just do not want to regret going to Whittier if being in Florida will give me a better chance at transferring to a New York Law School. Thanks for your time.
-Mel
Hi Ann,
I am graduating with a bachelors in criminal justice from the University of Maryland this May. I have been awarded a full scholarship to both Whittier in Los Angeles and St Thomas in Miami. Due to recent developments I will most likely to 100% be practicing in New York. I am considering transfering to a NY law school after my 1L or taking a year off and reapplying. I missed the cutoff dates to apply to the schools in NY, but I cannot decide if it’s a smart decision for me to transfer into NY or to take a year off and start fresh in NY. I really don’t want to give up the scholarship opportunity in Whittier or St. Thomas. If I were to transfer which school am I better off going to next year? Will being in Miami give me a better chance of transferring to NY than LA will? Thanks for your advice
Melanie, If you want to go to law school in NY then you need to wait a year and apply early for Fall 2012 admission. Don’t make a short-sighted decision to go to a law school that you know you want to transfer from. Transferring is not automatic!
Nate, you would only be eligible to transfer to other part time programs.
Ann,
I recently took my feb lsat and didnt do as well as planned. I anticipate getting into Thomas Jefferson and Golden Gate, both Tier 4 schools. I then planned on trying to transfer. Am I better off waiting a year or attending and trying to transfer??
Nate, if you believe you can improve your LSAT score and that you would get into schools you’d rather attend if you do improve your LSAT score, then I advise waiting. Do things right rather than trying to transfer later and then being stuck if it doesn’t work out.
Ann,
I noticed a response to a Matt on March 21st above regarding transferring out of Charlotte School of Law.
I am considering attending this school because of it’s location (where my wife must live for work), and the scholarship that they’ve offered.
In your opinion, is it possible to transfer from this school in the future assuming lets say a top 10% 1L? Not planning on going for the sake of transferring later, but like I said, assuming a good performance is it possible in your opinion? Do you have an arbitrary top __% that you would say is where you need to aim should you want this to be an option down the road?
Thanks,
Hi Craig,
I think the closer you can get to the top of the class the better. THere’s not a lot of precedent for transferring from this school since it’s newly accredited.
Ann,
First Semester I was in the top 10% at Valpo Law. I’m sending out transfer apps to
IU Bloomington,
U. Washington,
U. Colorado, and
George Washington in DC.
Am I shooting too high? Does it matter that I don’t have that many ties in Colorado and Washington state?
Also, will these schools know that I’m sending out applications to other schools (i.e. will IU also know that I’m applying to GW)? Am I sending out too many? I don’t want to make it seem like I’m just applying the “shotgun” method. I have really good reasons to go to each of these schools!
Hi Tim,
I hope that your applications articulate the “good reasons” you have to go to each school. Schools won’t know where else you are applying. I think you are shooting high from Valpo, but I think your grades at Valpo are encouraging. I wish you all the best! Let me know what happens.
Hi Ann,
I’ve sent out my applications and have been accepted in Golden Gate U. and Western State. I’m still waiting to hear back from Southwestern. I had decent LSAT scores but a poor undergrad GPA. I’m leaning towards going to Golden Gate because I have a home up here in northern cali. My question is, would it make a significant difference if I go to Southwestern (if I get in) versus Golden Gate if I plan to try and transfer after my first year? I would like to try and transfer to either Hastings or UCSF. I would love to go to Boalt but know its is way out of the picture. Would going to Golden Gate significantly decrease my chances of transfering as a T4?
Hi Ann,
I’ve been accepted to Golden Gate and am waiting on the results from Southwestern. I’m leaning towards going to Golden Gate because I’m from northern Cali and have a house in the SF bay area.
My question is, if I do get into Southwestern, would it make a significant difference if I go to Southwestern versus Golden Gate if I plan to try and transfer after my first year? I plan to try and transfer to Hastings, USF, and Santa Clara. As a very long shot, I will probably also apply to Boalt. I know either way that I would have to get top 5% of my class grades but would transfering from southwestern versus Golden Gate make my chances of success a lot better?
Ann,
I am trying to decide between attending Loyola (Los Angeles) and Brooklyn Law. I was offered a scholarship (50%) from Loyola and Brooklyn Admission mentioned that if I improved my LSAT score (currently low 160′s), I possibly could qualify for merit aid, if some remained in July after taking an LSAT in June. Given that Loyola is ranked higher, which school do you think would position me better to transfer into Columbia/NYU, and if Brooklyn, do you believe it is worth retaking the LSAT.
Ann,
I am a student at a T4 in the Northeast (outside of NY state) and want to move to NYC, as my wife will be attending college there, and I want to work/live in NYC. I moved here from a large city on the west coast and really want to get back to living in a major city again, as well.
My GPA as of now is a 3.2, however, for midterms I placed 2nd in Contracts and 3rd in Property so far, which there is an upcoming final for. I am confident that I will do just as well on finals, if not better. The school curves at an 80 (2.5-2.7 i believe). I do not know my full rank at this time, however.
However, I am often worried at my chances of getting into any school in NYC. I am looking at St. Johns, Cardozo, NYLS, but would accept anything in the city. Also considering Rutgers and Fordham as a reach. Do you feel I have a good chance of getting into any of those schools?
I also have 2 LORS from law professors if that helps.
Thank you,
Josh
Josh, you’re doing so well in your classes – that’s fantastic!!!!! It’s worth trying for, so keep up the good work this semester! And your LORs are great too!
Kristie, people transfer from SW to USC, for example, but probably not to Boalt. That’s not incredibly realistic. Also, that only happens if they are in the top 10% of their class – and, please remember that 90% of the class wants to be in the top 10% and don’t make it. If you want to be in Northern California, I don’t see any reason to go to Western State.
Hello,
I am wondering if it helps or hurts if I was previously accepted at a T-1, went elsewhere to a T-3, but now want to go that T-1. It was mainly for location reasons that I didn’t go to the T-1. My LSAT was at their 75th percentile. I understand they may not consider your LSAT when transferring. Is that so?
Don
Hi Ann!
I’m a 1L at a school ranked in the 50s in CA, but am from IL and desperately want to be back home. My ideal school is U of I, but I would be happy going to Kent also.
I called both schools to ask around what percentile they normally admit. Kent said a lateral transfer from a Loyola Chicago type school, top 50% is ok. U of I said “upper 25%,” not giving information from what type of school.
At my current school, I have gotten a 3.27, which puts me right at the top third. If I stay in the 3.3 range, do I have a shot at U of I (presumptively because I’m not transferring in from a lower school)?
Thanks!
I think if you have a home in the Bay Area then it just isn’t feasible to go to Southwestern. If you’re in the top 5% at GG, then USF and Santa Clara are viable, Hastings could happen too, but I still don’t know about Boalt…..
Scott, knowing how you do on standardized tests, it is even feasible to bring up your score significantly? And, if it is, why wouldn’t you then reapply next year to a different crop of law schools?
Hello ann, i am a 1L at a t4 school and did not do well at all during my first semester, i want to do a visiting back home at famu school of law , a school i could have went to in the first place because i would not be able to afford to live whether to keep living where i live at , do u think its possible for me to do visiting for a year at famu. Further the dean at my law school knows the dean at famu law school , and said she would put a good word in, do u think this will help my chances
J, you can certainly try. It’s good for FAMU because it’s tuition and if the dean says he’ll help you then that should help but you’re going to have to return to your current law school.
Ann,
I have just applied to a number of universities and am looking to attend law school in the fall. On the table right now is Indiana University-Indianapolis, University of Baltimore, and a waitlist at Catholic University. Baltimore has offered me an excellent scholarship covering almost all my expenses and Indiana and Catholic have not. Should I consider attending a T2 law school despite the high expenses of 40K per year for each school or go to a T3 with a nearly full ride and transfer up later? I’m hoping to get into a low T1 school if I can manage to be in the top 1% of my class.
Thank you!
Hi D,
First, congratulations on your scholarship. I was just in DC and met with a client at UB who is really happy with the school and teachers.
I think it is REALLY hard to be in the top 1% of your class. I also think that having no debt coming out of law school opens up your choices post law school more than the difference between Catholic and UB opens up choices. You’re not talking about GW or Georgetown here. I think that there’s a lot to be said for going to law school for FREE!
I am having financial issues and wont be able to stay at my school for the second year , do you think that this would be significant consideration for a school near my hometown to allow me to do a visiting for a year?
Julie, I do think you have a shot but I’d feel better about your chances if your grades improved this semester.
John,
It might do the trick but you’ll have to provide some convincing (not over-the-top) details, and you’ll also have to share why you’d be able to return to your home institution afterward.
Hi Ann, I’m currently at a Top 20 school with a scholarship of more than 50% of tuition. I’m within the top 25% of my class with a biglaw job lined up for my 1L summer. Would it be worth it to transfer to a school back home in CA, such as Berkeley? Would it be even realistic to apply to Stanford? I “like” where I am now, but would “love” to be back in CA. Thank you!
Bob, it sounds like you have a lot of great stuff lined up and working well for you. I don’t think top 25% will cut it for Berkeley or Stanford – they are really poaching the top person from schools.
Hi Ann,
First off, I just read The Law School Admission Game… great book! At any rate, I graduated two years ago from a reputable undergrad program with a 3.2 GPA. I have solid work experience (although not law-related). I’m currently scheduled to take the June LSAT for the first time and reasonably anticipate around a 165.
Now comes the difficult situation. Pending any decent score on the LSAT, I could attend a T3 school starting THIS fall and possibly transfer later on. I know you advise against entering any school with the intention of transferring, but I’m simply trying to make the most of my time and current situation. I’d like to get into a top 14 school, but even with an LSAT approaching 170, I feel like my undergrad GPA would still drag me down considerably. I’d also have to spend another year waiting.
I know transfer student pools are very small and competitive, but I’m thinking this is my best bet for a top school. Hindsight is 20/20, and although I could have EASILY earned a 3.7+ in my undergrad had ever applied myself, the question now is whether I will be a more attractive applicant as top 5% of a third tier school, or mediocre at best among standard JD applicants. Thanks!!
Ann,
I’m really torn on this and would really appreciate your help: I would absolutely LOVE to attend a certain school ranked 11th by USN, and my second choice would happen to be 12th. I’m several years out of school, my undergrad GPA was a little over 3.2 and I anticipate an LSAT score in the mid 160s when I take it next month.
My question is this: Should I postpone my LSAT til Oct, try for 170+, then apply for Fall ’12 with my unimpressive GPA, OR attend a third tier school starting this Fall and apply as a transfer in lets say the top 5% of my class? Which is more likely to succeed? The thought of spending a year waiting to begin law school seems awful, but I don’t want to severely limit my options down the road by attending a school that won’t be taken seriously for transfer to top 14.
Thank you!
Arthur, I think it would be unwise to start law school this fall (if you could even get into a law school for this fall with a June LSAT score, which I doubt even if schools claim to be happy to accept your application fee). You need to wait, take the LSAT in October and do the best you can and know you gave the possibility of attending your dream schools the best chance of coming to fruition.
Arthur, I’m REALLY glad you loved the book. I think I answered this in another subject line but transferring to a top 14 is not easy and you are setting yourself up for graduating from the T3 school you would attend and being bitter your whole life about a choice you should’ve taken the time to set up correctly. Please let me know if I can help you further.
Opps, I accidentally double posted because the original post didn’t appear at first.
Thanks for the help Ann. I think it’s wonderful that you take the time to maintain these blogs and give people crucial one on one advice. I’ll continue to prepare for the upcoming LSAT, but likely take your advice and postpone it in the end. My main concern is giving myself the best chance possible.
Out of curiosity, do you think there is even a reasonable chance of someone at the very top of their class at a T3 transferring to a top 14? I took your advice from other questions and called some schools I’m interested in, but nobody could give me any specifics or statistics regarding transfer students they took or denied. For example, Duke hadn’t taken anyone in recent years from my school, but they couldn’t say anything beyond “evaluation is done on an individual basis.” That means it’s hypothetically possible, but if it’s an EXTREME long shot even with a 4.0 and amazing recommendations, then that pretty much closes the book on that option.
Hi Ann,
I am currently an undergrad at Cal State Long Beach in CA. My GPA is currently a 3.5, great letters of rec/resume and I take the LSATs in Oct. but I know I am not good at standardized tests (even with Kaplan prep courses) I want to end up in the Massachusetts area, and prospectively be able to transfer into any of the top tier schools there. What would be the best route to take in order to reach my goal? Apply to Suffolk, Northeastern, etc and transfer from there, or stay out in CA and transfer from here? Being 21 I’m feeling a great amount of various pressures, and I would very much appreciate any kind of guidance! Thanks Ann!
Yes, Arthur. That’s exactly the point I was trying to make!
Bryce,
I think the first thing you need to do is think about the LSAT – what will you do to overcome your standardized testing history? Kaplan may not be the right way for you to go if you struggle with the LSAT – you may greatly benefit from working with a private tutor who is a good teacher and understands how to work with people who have your strengths and weaknesses. It’s too soon to think about transferring – take one step at a time .See where your LSAT score is then we can evaluate your options.
You’re right. I’m really looking forward to getting to that very point. Thank you for being so prompt with your response. This is pretty settling! Great advice
Hi Ann,
Just finished first year at GW. Still waiting on more than half of my spring grades but will probably be in the B+ range. Strong softs and int’l work experience (though I hear they don’t count for much).
Trying to transfer to Georgetown.
Think I have a chance? If not, where do you think I’d need to be. Any advice?
Hi Ann
My LSDAS GPA was a 3.96 from the business school at the University of Texas but my LSAT score was a dismal 148 (I know, I can’t explain it either…). It looks like I’ll be attending the Thurgood Marshall School of Law at Texas Southern University, definitely not my top choice.
With the elite GPA, I figured why not apply to every tier and see what happens and I got some very interesting results. I was waitlisted at UMaryland (Tier 1), Michigan State(Tier 3), and South Texas College of Law (Tier 4). So it appears that I’m competitive for admission at a Tier 1 but can’t automatically get into a Tier 4?
Anyhow how hard would it be with extremely solid grades to transfer to the following:
University of Texas (my 1st choice)
University of Maryland (considering I was waitlisted)
Michigan State (considering I was waitlisted)
UofHouston(Denied)
SMU
I can’t see myself staying at Thurgood Marshall, but I can’t bank on the fact that any of these waitlists will open up so please offer your wisdom!
Eric,
A lot of people at GW are going to have the same idea so I would say at least you’d have to be in the Top 10% if not higher. Good luck!
Hi Charlie,
You definitely cast a wide net with your schools and saw the benefits of it. I think what I would suggest is NOT going to Thurgood, and trying to get into MD or MSU. IF you don’t then retake the LSAT and apply next year. (Since you can’t explain your LSAT score – maybe you have a history of poor standardized test performance, but I’m unclear from your message).
Never attend a law school you don’t want to graduate from because there is NO guarantee that a 3.9 will follow you through law school and that you’ll be able to transfer.
Ann
Hi Ann,
I am at Loyola Los Angeles and will probably be finishing in the Top 5-10%. Do you think it will be worth giving up law review & and my GPA to go to UCLA or USC? I’ve heard horror stories of Loyola grads last year who were in the top 5% and still cannot get a job.
Cammie, I think it’s worth a try.
Hi Anne,
I just finished my 1L year at Cooley with a 3.06 GPA. I made the Dean’s list 2nd Semester with a 3.2. I am from Texas and trying to transfer back home. What do you think my chances are of getting into South Texas College of Law in Houston? I am unsure of my ranking because it hasn’t been published by my thoughts are that I’ll be between top 25%-30%. I have two letters of rec from professors and a good resume from work I did between college and law school. Thanks for any advice.
Hi Travis, it is definitely worth trying – it’s not an unreasonable option. I think, however, you should add other schools (like St. Mary’s) into the mix.
Hi Ann,
I’m feeling a little overwhelmed because I’m deciding to transfer law schools but I’m not sure (1) which law schools I have a good chance in getting into and (2) whether if I should wait on transferring and bring up my GPA (even though i would really like to transfer now than later).
I’m a part-time student at a tier 3/tier 4 law school. My main goal is to transfer to a school with the best ranking considering my grades at my current law school. My first semester GPA was 3.7 for the Fall semester. However my GPA dropped to an overall GPA of 3.3 during the Spring semester due to some personal issues.
I’m currently taking summer classes as well and am considering transferring during the fall semester of 2011. I would like to transfer to a part-time school. I have not received my grades for my summer semester yet and my school hasn’t listed my class rank.
I’m single, young and willing to move to any state that has the best law school ranking and at a city with a decent population and job prospects. I really want to focus on my career but unfortunately I can’t narrow the schools down because I am still uncertain about what field of law I want to go into.
I guess I need advice on what law schools I have a good chance of getting into? Specifically, I’m looking for an approximate of what tier. For instance, would T30 be too unrealistic? T50? How about T2? I’m from the midwest, so how about my chances for Michigan State Unv?
Unfortunately transferring is a taboo topic at my current law school, so I can’t discuss this issue with my advisor. So any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
ps. I apologize for the typos and my bad grammar.
Brittany,
Call Michigan State and other schools where you might have an interest in transferring. I think they will tell you (1) you can only apply to part time programs and (2) you have to apply now, you can’t do it later on in law school. You’ll have to cast a bit of a wide net with the schools list. I don’t know where you attend or what your class rank is, so I can’t comment on where you will be a competitive applicant.
Hi Ann,
I like your blog, it’s very helpful!
I have been admitted to Florida A&M and Florida Coastal law schools. I am a black female in my late 20s, wanting to transfer to a top 14 law school after my year. I aim in becoming an international law attorney.
The question is I don’t know which school to choose, especially in light of my goals. If you were in my shoes, which one would you recommend?
Thanks!
And sorry for the mistakes I made
Ann, I’m in the bottom 5% of my class at a Top-10 law school and really want to transfer down to be closer to home in California. Is there any hope of transferring to UCLA, USC, UC Hastings or UC Irvine?
Sylvia,
It’s highly unlikely you’d be able to transfer to a top 14 from either of these. It’s important to have reasonable expectations. But do the best you can with your grades and then we can talk about options.
Hi Tim,
That’s not one I get a lot! I think you should try but if you’re barely squeaking by it’s unlikely another school will be willing to take you on….
Dear Ann,
I am a prospective transfer student and I have a question regarding academic violations.
A very long time ago I attended a community college and I didn’t do so well. I vaguely remember receiving a letter stating that I had to shape up ( like an academic warning). Well, I pulled up my grades and sometime thereafter transferred to a 4-year university. At the present date, I just finished my first year of law school and performed exceptionally well.
Now that you have my background here is my dilemma.
I remember filling out my law school applications a year ago and reading the question–were you ever put on academic probation/warned. So to find out whether I should mark “yes” or “no,” I called the community college and spoke with a person who works in the records office. He told me there is a concern and transferred me to his supervisor. His supervisor (I forget his name) informed me that the community college does not put students on academic probation. Also, he said there is nothing on my transcript to indicate any academic issue (besides a few semesters of low grades). He did say, however, that my file indicates that I was advised, but not “warned” about my low grades… and, again, he said that there is nothing on my transcript to indicate that I was even “advised.” Thus, he told me to mark the question no (the question regarding academic warnings or probation). So I did. Upon further reflection, I just hope this guy knew what he was doing and advised me in the correct manner.
Nonetheless, I am concerned about getting “dinged” in my transfer cycle because the adcoms could look into my file and call the community college. What if this supervisor forgets what he told me( I spoke with him over a year ago). What if there is more than one supervisor and he/she tells the adcomms something different? Also, I applied to the law school that I am transferring to last cycle and if I answer “yes” the second time around they will think I was dishonest on my first application. I sincerely completed my applications with a good faith effort and would like to do the same this time around.
I have read that you have worked on admission committees. Am I just being paranoid?
What should I do? Thanks!
-Mick
Mick,
I don’t know the exact prompt you’re referencing (and can’t give you legal advice) but there’s a very small likelihood that a law school would call the community college. People just don’t have time for that kind of stuff. And I agree with your concern about keeping your answers consistent or you’ll have to explain why you answered differently last year.
Hi Ann,
Thanks for the timely response. The prompt is question 18 on the application, i.e. : “Have you ever been accused of a violation of the honor code or student conduct code, “warned,” placed on scholastic or disciplinary probation,” etc…
Just to be clear, I am not asking for any legal advise. I am certain that I did not violate any law. To rephrase my question, what do they mean by “warned” (question 18 on the application).
Thanks again,
Mick
Thank you Ann for your advice!
One more thing…I am still having difficulties choosing between those two schools; is one better than the other?
Hi Ann:
I just finished my 1L at UCLA. Today I received my last grade and I ended up doing pretty well–my GPA is 3.76. I don’t know where in the class that puts me, but I’m guessing pretty high. My LSAT is 174. I was waitlisted at Harvard last year but rejected from Stanford and Yale. I won’t know if I’m on Law Review until July. I’m really happy at UCLA (especially since getting my grades), I have a pretty good scholarship, and I feel like I’m in good shape for OCI. But I know that what law school I go to is something that will stick with me for the rest of my career, and I wonder if I am in a position to transfer to a top-3 school and if it’s worth it? I am most interested in Stanford.
Furthermore, the application is due in 9 days and I haven’t done anything on it because I really wasn’t sure how my grades would turn out and didn’t want to ask professors for letters before I knew if I would actually apply. Is it too late?
Thanks for any advice!
Don
Don, I love this question! First, congratulations on doing so well at UCLA. Second, I’m glad you’re happy with your situation, your school, and your scholarship. However, if you absolutely can’t live with yourself without knowing whether you could make it to Stanford, then give it a shot. Call a professor or two and get someone on board with you and ask them kindly if they can comply this week. Get the application in and see what happens, then at least you’ll know whether it could have been a possibility.
Thanks Ann!
Hi,
I am a rising 2L and am looking to transfer to a tier 1 school. I am currently at Florida Coastal School of Law (tier 4). I was ranked number 30 out of 730 students. What do you think my chances are of getting into a tier 1 school?
Thanks,
Matt
Ann,
I just finished my first year of law school at Rutgers – Newark (T2). I received a 3.74. Unfortunately, my school does not rank, so I am not sure where I stand in my class. However, looking at another school that also uses a 3.0 curve I estimate I am somewhere in the top 5%. I do not have a scholarship, but I have a possibility of getting one. Without a scholarship tuition is about 25K per year. I would like to live in Philadelphia.
My question is, what are my prospects of transferring to Columbia, NYU or UPenn? In case it helps, I have had substantial career success creating and running businesses, public speaking and volunteering.
My second question is do you think if I stay at Rutgers – Newark I will be attractive to Philadelphia area firms?
Hi Ann,
I was wondering which school you thought was better, Cal Western or Golden Gate Law? I know both are tier 4 but that is where I am at right now. Also, if I went to ggu what schools could I even transfer to in California that are a higher tier if I was in the top 15% of my class?
Thank you.
-S
Hello,
I would like some advice on where to apply. I am at a T4 school and I I got a cum gpa of 3.13. I am from NYC and would like to move back. I have applied to St. Johns, NY Law and will be applying to Seton Hall and Hofstra. I wanted to try Brooklyn Law, but I feel that may be out of my reach. Any suggestions of schools that would take a candidate like me.
Thank you!
Nsenga
Ann!
Hi! I just wanted to let you know that your website has been very helpful. But, I have a question about an addendum. Should the addendum be single spaced or double spaced? The instructions do not specify on the application like they do for personal statements (it says double space for personal statements). Also, if you are writing about more than 1 issue in an addendum do you call it an “addenda” ?
Thanks,
Jay
Jay, if it’s just a paragraph or two it can be single spaced. Plural is “addenda”
Andrew, I’m a law school admission consultant and not a career specialist so I’ll stick with the first question – I think you have great potential to transfer. Absolutely! I also think, if you stay at Rutgers, there is something to be said for being a bigger fish in a smaller pond.
Matt, I think it’s highly unlikely – you’re probably shooting way too high. But it doesn’t hurt to try. Just cast a wide net on the schools list.
Hi Ann,
I am at South Texas in Houston. I am from here and want to practice in TX and preferrably Houston, but I feel I can benefit from a transfer. I finished my first year with a 3.77 which is well in the top 5% and just out of the top 2%. What are my chances at an SMU or U of H? Thanks.
Hi Ann,
I am currently at a tier 2 law school hoping to transfer to either UNC or Duke. I am a resident of NC and graduated from UNC undergrad in 09. I have a 3.82 GPA at my current school and was wondering what my chances were for either institution.
Thanks!
Hi Ann,
Question about application procedure:
When we submit a resume, are we also supposed to fill out our work information on the space provided in the application? Last cycle, I said “see resume.” In hindsight, I think that may have been a mistake.
Also, the application asks for a home phone, cell phone, and work phone number. I only have a cellphone. Do I enter that number in all three boxes? Because the APP says to leave nothing blank.
Thanks!
Ann,
I am a 0L who is into Golden Gate School of Law and waiting to hear back from Southwestern SOL. I have UGPA of 3.17 although my degree granting UGPA was 3.38. My LSAT is 152. I know I can do better on the LSAT (given that all of my practice scores were above 157). I am also appealing for accommodations on the test (extra time). That being said, I really want to go to a T1 or T2 school. Should wait another year and try to up my LSAT or should I enter GGU Law or Southwestern and try to transfer? In your experience what is a better/easier way to gain admission?
Luke
Chris, I think UNC could happen since you have connections there.
Ryan, I think your chances are excellent!
Hi Joe,
You may want to check out the chapter of my book that addresses filling in applications and the other on resumes, but the quick answer is that you need to fill in every blank.
Luke, It’s very hard to transfer. If you really feel you can improve your LSAT score then wait a year and try again.
Hi Ann,
I have question about admissions/transferring. Does the Admission Committee review old personal statements and compare them to the new ones?
Thanks!
Hi Ann,
I earned a 2.4 at a 4th tier school (OCU) and am desperately trying to get out of Oklahoma. Do you think I have a good shot in getting into a 3rd tier school (WU, but I’d love to hear more suggestions)? I have a good resume and LOR from a legal research and writing professor. I have a good GPA from undergrad & from my MBA. In my letter, do you think it would be ok for me to discuss my strong academics in other programs and that the reason my grades weren’t so good in law school was because I was so unhappy?
Thanks!
Sorry, I meant University of Wyoming, not WU.
Jon, they have the ability to do so but may not do it automatically. You can call the admission office and inquire.
Charlotte,
It’s not a good idea to tell a law school you’d been unhappy in law school. There are lots of times you’ll be unhappy in your legal career (perhaps) but will still need to do your best work everyday. Transferring “up” is something you will only be able to do from the top of the class once you’ve proved your abilities at another law school, and transferring laterally doesn’t work at your GPA because schools will be afraid of you sliding into academic probation and/or not passing the bar.
Ann,
I recently posted this, but for some reason it seems to have been deleted. I go to a law school tied at 23 under USNWR’s rankings. I finished my 1l year in the top 3%. I am applying to Chicago, Northwestern, NYU, and Columbia. Could you give any guidance on my chances at these schools – I seem to have a mental block thinking that I could ever have a shot at one of them. Thanks again.
Hi Ann,
I attended 1L at Atlanta’s JMLS and was ranked 20/200 (top 10%) with a cumulative GPA of 3.3. What do you think of my chances of transferring to some of GA’s better law schools (UGA, Emory of Georgia State)?
Ann,
To supplement my last questions: I am from Cleveland OH and attending undergrad at The Ohio State University. If I were to consider moving closer to home, what schools might I have a reasonable shot at being accepted?
Ann,
I will be starting school this semester at a T3 (Gonzaga), which I am extremely fortunate to get into considering my numbers. I basically had a lot of personal issues in college and got a 2.7 by essentially not doing any homework or studying. I wasn’t adult enough for college but managed to get through with my quick wits and good memory. Additionally, when I took the LSAT the first time I was so unhappy at my job that I rushed it and bombed it with a 146. I then took it a month later with rushed prep but got sick and got a 150. Finally I took it a third time and killed the game section (21/23) and did adequate on the logic reasoning (34/50) but absolutely bombed the reading and got a 153 score.
Long story short, I would love to go back to my home town, Boulder, Colorado at CU Law one day or venture out to Seattle to attend the Univ of Washington because I absolutely loved the atmosphere, and facility there when I visited. Any idea what numbers I should shoot for at either school? I also visited both schools and wrote them snail mail letters thanking them greatly for their time spent on my application and my interest in possibly transferring after one year, although I didn’t mention specifics.
Hi Ann,
I just finished 1L at Touro with a 3.64 (within top 20% of my class.) What are my chances of getting into a place like Seton Hall, Rutgers, Brooklyn, and/or Cardozo? In addition, I have over three years of work experience within the legal industry. Am I shooting too high?
Tim, sounds reasonable to me.
HSACM,
I thought i answered this but you may have posted it in a different location on the blog.
I think it’s worth trying those schools. Get over the mental block and apply ASAP!
Hello Ann,
I am a 0L, accepted to New York Law School for this fall (a low LSAT score didn’t help me). The thing is, I just got admitted to Qunnipiac Law with $10,000 scholarship. If I were to transfer to a higher ranked, new york region law school (such as Fordham, Cardozo or Brooklyn..), do you think it is worth paying the whole tuition and attend New York Law School instead of Qunnipiac? Or would New York Law School be worth as a regional school anyway, as I have hopes for a New York law firm?
I would truly appreciate your opinion….
Ann,
I just finished my 1L (part-time) year at a T2 school (Catholic) and am considering putting in a transfer application to GMU. I finished with a GPA of 3.649 in the top 17% of my class. I am a Virginia resident so I would have in-state at Mason but I also have a scholarship from Catholic that will make attendance about $5,000 more than GMU. I can get a recommendation letter from a judge on the Virginia Appeals court and I have two years of work experience in the legal community. Do you think I would have a shot at Mason and is it worth losing the GPA and possibly a shot a Law Review (we don’t have LR results from Catholic yet)?
Ann,
I too have questions about applying to law school. My undergraduate grades were not the best. Under 3.0. Since then I’ve earned two MA’s with a 3.5 GPA. I haven’t taken the LSAT as yet.
How do I get past my Undergraduate grades? Graduate school was a much better experience for me and my grades reflect that.
Do you have any advice for me?
Hi Jennifer, Congratulations on these two good options. You need to look at how many Quinnipiac grads are practicing in NY. You have to see where recent grads from each school are getting jobs and then see what it’s worth to you to leave NYC.
Jerad,$5000 a year isn’t that big a difference, and there is something to be said for being a big fish in a smaller pond. I think the real question should not be whether you have a chance, but why you would want to do this.
Hi Char, You may want to start by reading my book and you’ll get a good overview of how you would try to overcome your UGPA.
Ann,
I wrote earlier to you. After my 1L I received a 3.45, good for the top 12-10% at the University of the Pacific McGeorge School of law. In addition, I recieved these grades while being hospitalized for the last month all the way up to finals. With both my grades and social consideration into account is there a shot that I can transfer to UCLA, DAVIS, PEPPERDINE, USC, or GW?
Ann,
My question is if I went to Mercer (in Georgia) and was in the top 15% of my class would it be possible to transfer to a school like Vandy? Or even to another state school (UGA or Georgia State) that would be much cheaper?
Zach, I think Pepperdine and Loyola would be good picks and UCLA and USC would be reaches. Davis could work too. It’s all about how many transfers the schools have room for this year.
To all commenters – because this topic has become so unwieldy, I’m not going to be able to give opinions on where people should apply to transfer. IF you have a question that hasn’t been answered on this comment thread previously and isn’t about where you have a shot at transferring, please feel free to leave a comment and I will do my best to respond.
Ann,
I was initially waitlisted at a T2 school but was ultimately rejected shortly before classes started. I did everything I could to express my desire to go to that T2 school, and that I would go to a nearby T4 and attempt to transfer in if not admitted off the waitlist. After fall semester at the T4, I finsihed in the 55th percentile (2.7 GPA) but impoved to the top 25% in spring semester (3.29). Combining those two semesters, I finished the year in the 39th percentile (3.0 GPA). I know my overall rank is not fantastic, but will this improvement likely impress the T2 into accepting me?
Thanks
Hi Ann,
I have taken the LSAT 2x (144 and 147) and I had an UGPA of 3.023. I have been out of school for 6 years and have been working in the process. I was accepted into 5 out of the 7 schools I applied to (Thurgood Marshall, Valpariso, University of Dayton, University of Detroit Mercy, Southern University) However, I was denied at both my dream schools: Howard and the University of Baltimore. Howard was my first choice then UB. I am attending TMSL in the fall and know some alumni who have graduated from the institution; one was first in her class and the other was in the top 10% and both are very successful and are at top firms. I don’t mind staying at TMSL if need be but is there a chance that i can transfer to Howard, UB, or maybe South Texas after my first year?
I have recently been accepted to The University of Dayton and The Charlotte School of law. I know that Charlotte has only been recently given ABA accredidation. My question is after my first year I plan on trying to transfer to a T2 law school. What is your opinion does one school give me a better chance to transfer over the other? I know that my grades have to be high but provided I do top 10-15% in my class I wasn’t sure if they would look at both school’s the same?
Hi Ann,
I was accepted to the part time programs at Santa Clara and Southwestern. I live in LA, my girlfriend is here, and I would want to practice in LA. The only reason I would go to Santa Clara is to have a better shot to transfer. Is it worth going to Santa Clara over SW? So many people talk smack about SW so im unsure what to do
Just read the last email you replied to…my question has been answered
Dear Ann-
I originally took my LSAT in October last year and made a 151. I applied to GA State, UGA and Emory. I didn’t get into GA State or UGA, but got on the waitlist for Emory. I decided to retake the test in June and increased my score to a 156. I spoke with the Dean of Admissions at Emory and he says that I’m at the top of his list to get in this fall but to be patient. In the interum I’ve applied to Atlanta’s John Marshal law school and just got the email that I was accepted with an $8,000 scholarship. What should I do? Should I start at John Marshall and hope that Emory or GA State will accept my transfer application? Or reapply for GA State and Emory for Fall 2012 and start in a year?
I’m just trying to figure out the best path for me to be successful and I want to graduate from either GA State or Emory and NOT John Marshal.
Any advice?
Lauren
Lauren, This is fabulous. You need to stay on the WL at Emory no matter what. If you don’t get into Emory, you can really for GA St, Emory and UGA next year.
Any advice on my last post?
Bobby, in a thread with 300 comments, sometimes things get lost. Can you please post your question again and I will do my best? I can’t answer questions about chances at particular schools.
Hi Ann,
I am currently an exiting Teach for America Corp Member and I was supposed to go to Washington and Lee (T30) after my Corp experience. Originally, I applied with low LSATs 161 (latest LSAT 164) and a GPA of 3.87. One do you think a higher ranked school is within my reach? And two would it be better to wait another year or try and transfer next year?
Thanks!
Kelly, since you have a high UGPA, it’s more likely you would have a shot at transferring. But if you wouldn’t be happy attending W&L, then don’t go there. Wait the year. I don’t know where else you’d want to go (geographically) but of course it’s possible you’d have more options with a 164.
Hello Ann,
How does the transferring process work if I will be going into 1L Spring semester? Would I have to wait till the following Spring to apply? Could I apply for the typical June/July deadlines even though I’d only be half way through 1L?
Thank you!
Ms. Levine,
I am wanting to transfer from a t4 in Michigan to t4 in Texas. What ranking/gpa would be ideal? Thanks.
Eric E, just do the best you can do because every good grade helps! It depends on the particular schools you’re talking about of course (usually by T4 in Michigan people mean Cooley) so I’d say top third at least….
Dear Ann,
I’m about to start my first year at John Marshall in Chicago. It was not my first choice but with average grades (3.1GPA) and a low LSAT (148) it was the best I could do. I was wondering if I complete a successful year what would my chances be to transfer to a higher ranked school. I’m most interested in living/working in New York so I’ve considered Fordham, Brooklyn, and St. Johns, but I dream of Columbia or NYU.
Thanks.
Thanks
I want to apply to law school this fall and would love to attend GWU, Northwestern or Georgetown. I am an international student but I have a really low gpa(about a 2.5) and I am graduating this summer with about 39 credits completed this summer alone. If I was to score a 178 on the LSAT, do I have a chance at being admitted at one of these schools?
Are there any other schools that you would suggest that I apply to?
Ann,
I have just been accepted to two great law schools, The John Marshall Law School in Chicago, IL and Stetson University College of Law in Gulfport, FL. I want to practice in FL and Stetson is a better school. The problem is I have a personal desire to live in Chicago for a year. I have been born and raised in small towns in FL and want to do something different before it’s too late. However, I do want to come back to FL after my first year. This means I will have to be in the top third of my class to transfer to “the good ones”, like Miami, Stetson, UF, and FSU. What if I cannot get into the top third of my class? Will they still consider me? I’ve always been a great student in undergrad, but this is law school. Everyone is trying to be in the top third and I have no idea how I’ll perform. PLEASE HELP!! Thank you so much.
Also, will firms in FL be more likely to hire FL law school graduates as opposed to out of state grads?
Rose, take a vacation in Chicago. Go to law school in Florida. : )
Rose, yes. Think about where you will be networking, what attorneys you will be meeting. How will you meet them if you are freezing your you-know-what off in Chicago? : )
Toby, I can’t do specific schools feedback on the blog but if you really hit high 170s on the LSAT and you have other good things going for you, you could be competitive at these schools. I have a former client currently at GT with a superb (170s) LSAT and under a 3.0, but he had a very interesting background and upward trend with the grades.
Marie, while almost anything is possible, you have to keep in mind that everyone at top 25 schools is trying to transfer to the top 10, and everyone in the top 10 to the top 5, etc. (not everyone, but it sure will feel like “everyone”). I don’t think you can bet on transferring, especially since your grades from undergrad are only average so it’s hard to bet on you being #1 in your class at JM. With your stats, you should be happy to be at JM and do your best there to make connections and succeed. If you end up doing well, then – great – you can consider transferring. But it should be a “bonus” and not an expectation.
Ann, I am currently an undergrad from University of California Davis with an awful 2.36 cumulative GPA as an Economics major. I started out with taking science classes (pre-med) and did terribly in them. So I changed my major to Economics and minored in Political Science, and my fifth year of college GPA alone was roughly >3.5 with A’s and B’s. I’ve taken practice LSAT’s and have gotten around mid 160′s. I hope to score above 170′s before I take the actual LSAT. If I do end up scoring in the 170′s on the actual LSAT, what are my chances of getting into law school? Perhaps even in the Tier 2 or above? Thanks so much.
Sarah, if you can pull off that LSAT score it will save you and I think you’ll be able to pull it off.
Hi Ann,
I just started my first year at St. Thomas School of Law. Do you know what class rank UM requires for transfers? Do they also consider UGPA or LSAT? I’m also interested in Cardozo, Brooklyn Law, Loyola (Los Angeles), Hastings…are those too much of reach for St. Thomas transfers? Thanks!
Ann
I just began my 1L year at Washburn University School of Law in Topeka, KS. I had applied to various schools from all tiers up and down the East Coast, where I truly hope to graduate from. I was rejected from all T1 and T2 schools I applied to, but was accepted to a couple T3 schools (Akron, Ohio Northern, Washburn) and a T4 school (Widener). Ultimately I picked Washburn due to the proximity to my hometown of Wichita, KS and my plan that I would not be graduating here anyway.
My first question is what are my prospects for transferring to DC-area T1 or T2 schools? (Georgetown, George Washington, George Mason, American) I have read above that it is recommended to call these schools and ask what class rank they require from Washburn, and I will surely do that. But what is your opinion?
My second question is where do you think the cut-off point of schools would be if I am in the top 15-20% of my class? As in, I shouldn’t apply to schools ranked higher than…
My final question is, with transfer application deadlines as early as mid-June and the expected delay in Spring grades, should I be applying using only my Fall first semester grades or do I need to wait for the Spring grades to arrive as well and then just move quickly?
Thanks for your help!
Matt, aim for the top of your class and build relationships with faculty and classmates as though you planto graduate from Washburn, because – let’s be honest – chances are that’s what’s going to happen. I do not comment on school chances/selection on the blog format if I can help it. Your June grades WILL be a consideration for transfer except in the case of Georgetown that lets you try to transfer after one semester.
Hi Ann,
I’m in my second semester at a tier 4 school in CA, I’m currently in the top 4% of my class and was accepted onto law review at my school, I’m also pretty active on campus. I’d like to work at a large firm doing business/IP and I’m wondering if I should consider transferring to University of San Diego Law, or another Tier2 school to better my chances or if its better to excel where i am. The school I attend though has a good IP program. The school has given me a scholarship and I’ve heard they reevaluate based on first year grades. any suggestions?
Hey Ann,
I just thought I could offer some hope to some of these kids on your site. I graduated from UC Riverside with a 2.7 in political science (I really did waste a lot of time and resources while I was there). I also have a slight criminal record and was on academic probation once during my time in undergrad and had to write addendum’s for both. My LSAT was decent but not great for some of the top tier schools (a 168). I got into Emory, Wiliiam and Mary, Cardozo, Baylor, University of Minnesota, Fordham, and George Washington (where I currently am) purely based on my personal statement it seems. My advice would be to approach the personal statement with the mindset that this is probably the only time you can brag about all the little things that make you unique and desirable (being confident without being completely cocky i suppose) and get away with it! There are a lot of opportunities out there if people let their true personalities shine through in their statements and resume’s to a lesser extent.
Hi Ann
Do you think it would be worth applying to California Western School of Law with the following stats…3.03 CGPA, LSAT scores 138, 140, 147 respectively and i’m a 26 year old black man (URM)?
Brian,
Yes.
Ann
I majored in criminology and have a strong interest in social justice, potentially practicing in the public defenders office and/or the district attorney’s office. I’m not too keen about working in a big law firm. Would applying to Cal Western be a good choice given my interests?
Brian, a lot of CW grads go into those offices.
Is it true that Cal West grading system leads to 10% of its first year law students being kicked out by the end of the year for not maintaining the required GPA?
Brian, that’s a question for CW – call and ask for these #s. Politely.
Ann,
I am a U Mich Law student who wants to go into business/franchise law, but I am unsure whether I want to go into a law firm. How difficult is it for me to receive a job for an in-house position right out of law school?
Keval
Keval, I think you are going to really love my new book! It’s coming out next month and it talks about legal careers with a lengthy section on becoming in house counsel – I interviewed attorneys who did this right out of law school and my next Blog Talk Radio show will feature one of these individuals so stay tuned!
Keval, here is the link:
Thank you very much! I will definitely check it out!
Dear Ann,
I think I’m in a bit of a unique situation. Last year I was accepted at Villanova law and Hofstra law, yet I chose to go to Elon Law (just became accredited this year) because they offered me full scholarship. I would have gone to Villanova, but they offered me no scholarship, and the incentive of a full scholarship at Elon was simply too much to turn down.
My question to you is: is it possible to transfer to Villanova for my 2L year after I already rejected them and chose Elon? If I finish in the top 10 after my 1L year at Elon and apply for transfer, will Villanova look down on my transfer application because I already rejected them?
Thanks,
Scott
Scott, I would argue that it only really shows how interested you are in the school. HOWEVER, Elon is an unproven law school and you’d have to basically be #1 in your class for other law schools to seriously consider you as a transfer, especially Top 100 schools. Do the best you can, apply to transfer, and see what happens!
Ann,
Really? Top 10 wouldn’t do it at Elon in order to transfer to Villanova, ranked 83, a solid T2? Especially if I was already offered acceptance there?
Scott, I can’t tell you it won’t be enough, but I can’t make you any guarantees. You’ll just have to try and see what happens. I’d be doing you a disservice if I made something up about a new school that so few have transferred “up” from to date.
Ann,
I am a 1L at GW hoping to transfer to NY. My SO just got transferred for his job and we would like to be in the same place. I’m hoping to get into either Fordham, NYU or Columbia. I’ve been told I need top 10% to transfer up, but what about lateraling to a school like Fordham?
Thanks for your help!
Ann,
I am a 1L at GW hoping to transfer to NY. My SO just got transferred for his job and we would like to be in the same place. I’m to get into either Fordham, NYU or Columbia. I’ve been told I need top 10% to transfer up, but what about lateraling to a school like Fordham?
Thanks!
Hi Ann,
I’m a second year evening student at Suffolk Law School in Boston. I’ll be done with all first year classes at the end of this year. My current rank is top 16-17%. I hope to bring it higher this year. I also have 3-4 years experience working in a law firm.
With a strong recommendation from my first year legal writing professor, what kind of shot do you think I have at transferring to NY area schools like Cardozo, Brooklyn, Rutgers Newark? My LSAT was low, will this factor in?
Thanks!
Hi Jen, your LSAT won’t factor in. I assume you would be transferring to part time programs and that you’ve checked with the law schools to make sure that they take transfers with your # of credits?
Jennifer, you should call the admission office at Fordham and ask, but probably top 25% or so. Fordham takes a lot of transfers – which is the good news, but a lot come from local law schools like Cardozo.
I would have to respectfully disagree with this notion of having to be #1 in your class to transfer from a T4 to a top 100 school. I’m a 2L at a top 40 school and transferred from a T4 that just recently got accreditation. I was in the top 14% with moot court and a couple of other first year honors.
To strengthen my point, two of my 1L classmates also transferred to top 100 schools: one was top 20% and the other was top 25%. They both now attend schools ranked in the top 70.
Transferring is very real and it happens much more than you think. Personally, I think top 20% is a solid benchmark to make a move to the top 100 from a T3 or T4 based on first-hand experience. The point is to do well then see who will take you.
You still have have to be realistic. For example, being top 14% didn’t get me into GW, but I have a friend who did get in from a T3 and he was top 11%. The point is, transfer admissions decisions are quite marginal when it comes down to it so don’t think there’s a magic number. And in any case, that number does not have to be #1 in your class. Hope this helps the people out there trying to make the transfer power move.
Jay, thanks for your feedback. You are absolutely right. On the blog, when people are not even starting their 1L years, I try to discourage them from thinking about transferring because so few people end up doing it and I’ve seen too many people plan on transferring and then being bitter that they end up graduating from the school where they started. Transferring is a great option for many people, but it is not something people can count on. It’s also more likely for people who had either a high UGPA for their law school or a high LSAT score for their law school.
Hi Ann-
I’m hoping to get accepted to St. John’s Law for Fall 2012 however I didn’t do as well on my LSAT as I had done on practice ones. My GPA (I’m currently a senior at St. John’s) is a 3.6 and I have a few internships.
What do you think my chances of getting into STJ is?
Does having a high under-grad GPA from STJ play any part in my acceptance?
Sorry- My LSAT was a 152, which puts me around the 20% for STJ students
Hello Ann,
I am thinking about transferring and was wondering if prior waitlists made a difference. I made it to the final round of waitlisted candidates at Columbia and did not receive my rejection until I had actually started school elsewhere. Can I say on a transfer application “look how close I was to being admitted” and “I was very interested and still am in attending”? All this is assuming I do well with the grades of course. Thanks!
Yes – serious interest combined with “almost” being admitted the year before can absolutely help. Good luck!
What types of grades will a non ABA school look for in a transfer if that school is working towards their ABA approval? Will they be harder than you would think because they are concerned about bar passage rates? I am a part at an ABA approved school but my commute time is crazy around 6 hours round trip so looking to transfer.
Hi Ann,
I am currently finishing my senior year at UCR in california, I really want to go to law school but my gpa is very low, a 2.5 and I scored 165 on the LSAT. What are some realistic schools that I should look towards applying to. I want to go to Howard University Law which is a T3 school but I don’t know if it is feasible. Can you please give me suggestions on some decent schools with decent job prospects to look into on the east or west coast or south to look into. I am willing to move from California.
Thanks,
Alicia
Hi Alicia,
You will get into schools, and Howard could be feasible. I can only create a schools list for my clients because I don’t know enough about people based on what they tell me in the blog format.
I am 1L at Suffolk University. Do you think it is possible to transfer into a top 35 school such as BC, BU, Georgetown, Fordham or GW. Would top 5% in my class be high enough.
Hi Ann,
I am a Canadian student wishing to study in the US for my JD. I was accepted to various schools, but was unable to attend due to financial reasons. Now that I have more help financially, I am debating attending Florida Coastal for the Spring term (it is the only school I have been accepted to that has a Spring start date) just to start Law school but transfer to another school in Florida or California for the Fall term. If I maintain good grades (and I do understand that this is a risky factor to rely on) in my first semester, will I be able to transfer for the Fall?
Thanks,
Eliza
Hi Ann,
I’m currently a 1L at William Mitchell College of Law and i’m considering transferring. I’m originally from New York and I’d like to transfer into one of the NYC area schools (preferably Fordham). Should I contact the admissions dept and ask what they are looking for in a candidate in my situation? What are my chances of being accepted at a school in NY when I’m transferring from a non-local school? What class rank will give me a good chance of being accepted to one of the better NYC schools?
Chris, see what your grades are and then call the law schools in NY and see what they tell you, but to make a big jump (like to Fordham) you would need to be near the top of your class.
Eliza, Don’t do it. This is incredibly short sighted. There is absolutely no guarantee you’d be able to transfer, especially because you’d only have one semester of law school under your belt and most transfers have their entire first year. I think this is a losing proposition.
Mike, see where you are in your class and go from there…. It’s not impossible but you need to see where your grades place you…
Ann,
I got a 3.1 UGPA from Hopkins and scored an 83 percentile on the LSAT. I want to end up at a T-14 school, but my parents and I are in a debate on whether or not I should go to a mid Tier 2 school (U Oregon) and transfer or if I should go to the best law school I can (not sure how high I can go with my stats) and then try to transfer to a T-14. What would your advice for me be? I’m really at a crossroads here and this is something that I don’t want to debate with my parents any longer.
Thanks,
Mike
Michael,
With a 3.1 GPA, I can’t predict that you’re going to earn top grades in law school. Therefore, I wouldn’t put money on you being able to transfer to a T14. It’s very hard to get into those schools with your GPA unless there is something very compelling in your background/experience.
I hope you share this with your parents and that it takes the pressure off a bit : )
Ann
Ann,
It wouldn’t be impossible though? What do you think my chances of transferring into a school around the ranking of George Washington University?
Would it help that I was also a 4 year ROTC cadet (now a commissioned 2nd Lieutenant), worked through college, was in a fraternity, and was a member of the varsity crew team during college?
Thanks for your advice,
Michael
Dear Ann,
I am a student at Cooley. My GPA is a 3.1 and I am in top 25% of my class. I am wrapping up my first year. I have been contemplated transferring. I am on the fence though, b/c I have gotten a scholarship and if I transfer out I will not be able to participate in law review or get an honors scholarship. I have thought about transferring MSU, which is ranked 95 out of the top 100 law schools.
Prior to attending law school, I worked as a paralegal for the last 10 years. I have a ton of experience with both sides of the v. If I do well this semester and get my GPA up to a 3.4 or higher would you suggest transferring out or staying.
Also, my plan upon graduating is moving to DC. How hard will it be for me to secure employment as a graduate from Cooley? Will employers look to the years of experience or will I be penalized because I went to Cooley, which has a great program despite their reputation.
I would appreciate any incite you could offer me as I have been going back and forth about this for a few months.
Thank you.
Amy
Amy,
I think if you can transfer, it’s worth trying. MSU might be a good choice for you.
In terms of Career Options in DC, I recommend talking to Career Services or doing your own search of alumni in the DC area and contacting them for advice.
Hi Ann,
Thanks… Do you have idea where I would need to rank with Suffolk being a T4?
Hi Ann,
I am just about finishing my first semester at Texas Tech and I am not sure about how my grades will be, but I fear the worst. I am from Dallas and would like to go back or actually to any other law school, but Tech.
I just don’t like the Lubbock area and hate the food. I would be willing to go to any other law school in Texas, except TSU in Houston of course.
if I would get all C’s in my classes would I have a chance of transferring or should I not even try. Just so you can know a little about myself. I am hispanic, first generation in the states, I am bilingual, and English is my second language. If this would help any?
Thanks any advice would be great.
Eva
Hi Eva,
You need to see how this semester goes. You need to concentrate on getting the best grades you can and really showing that you can put mind over matter – that it doesn’t matter that you’re in Lubbock or that the food sucks – all that matters is that you are going to prove to yourself that you can DO law school!
Does this mean that getting C are not good enough to transfer?
The thing is, is that I feel like I understand the material its just everyone in law school is just so much smarter. Only a few are guaranteed an A or a B. I feel that a C doesn’t mean we are dumb its just that everyone else is just that much smarter.
Dear Ann,
Finding this site was truly a blessing, especially for your wonderful answers in the comments section. I hope you can shed some light on my situation, as you have with so many others. I just completed my first semester at a tier-3 school. I scored a 164 on my LSATs with no prep or study (about ten pts higher than the 75th percentile for my school) but my unimpressive undergrad GPA of 2.8 and some personal reasons forced me to give up the dream of attending a top university. Now I have received my grades and having found a motivation and love of the material that I had never previously experienced, I’ve achieved the number one GPA in my class of 4.2. And to think… all this time I was only shooting for a 4.0! Anyway, my question here is two pronged.
#1- Is their greater benefit in spending my days at this school and seeking to complete a valedictorian career or in getting out of dodge and taking my talents to the best school that will have me?
#2- What is my ceiling when looking at schools to transfer to? T50? T14? I am confident I will have the skills to succeed at any institution… I’m just looking for a target to hone in on.
Any advice is much appreciated.
Hi Ryan,
Thanks for those nice compliments.
Congratulations on your fabulous performance. I think there is a lot to be said for being a big fish in a small pond if you feel the school you are attending is going to stand behind you and support you and really make you their superstar in terms of job prospects, making sure you have access to prominent alumni in a field you hope to be in, etc. I would say the sky is the limit in terms of schools – you may be able to transfer to a top 25 depending on where you go to school, etc. At the very least, pulling your transcripts for an application might get you a scholarship to your current school.
Wishing you all the best in the new year.
Hey Ann,
I am a 1L at Nova Southeastern Shepard Law Center. I just received my first semester grades and I averaged out at a 3.1. I have aspirations of transferring from a T4 to a T2. I am a little discouraged because friends of mine got higher GPAs than me. I just want to know from your experience can this leap from a T4 to a T2 be achieved based on the direction my GPA is going. As stated, right now I have a 3.1. Where should my GPA be at the end of my 1L year in order to be suitable candidate for a T2 school? I know I should contact the schools first to see what they are looking for, but I do not have a school preference yet because I just want to know if it is possible to transfer first before I start looking for potential schools to transfer to.
Please respond whenever you are available. Thank you for your time and effort. Very much appreciated.
Michael
Hey Ann,
I’m a 1L at Golden Gate in San Francisco. I just got my first semester grades back and was disappointed with a 3.178. I am happy at GGU but i know its reputation is not all that impressive. I was hoping to transfer to either USF or Santa Clara law school. Do you think there is any chance?
Thanks and Happy New Year!!
Ann,
I very much appreciate the time you devote to replying to so many posts, your insight/recommendations are extremely helpful.
I wanted to receive some advice in light of recent developments affecting my application. I am applying ED to the OU College of Law in Norman. I have a 3.52 GPA (re-calculated by LSAC to 3.45) from a top 15 liberal arts school, and scored a 149 on my LSAT in 9/2009 and then scored a 157 in 6/2011 (the OU median is 158, hence why I applied under ED).
I submitted my application on 12/31/2011 and it was reveived on 1/1/2012. However, my Dec 2011 LSAT score came in at 153, and a score report update was sent to OU on 1/5/2012. Of course I am extremely disappointed in my most recent score, should I reach out to the law school’s admissions office explaining that this new score is not indicative of how I will perform in law school? How negatively will this new, lower score negatively affect my chance of admissions? Should I do anything about it?
Otherwise, I feel that I am a very qualified candidate, excellent resume (2 yrs work experience as an analyst for a consulting firm, employee recognition award), very good recs/essays/addendum (I believe), strong undergraduate school reputation with good GPA and extras, etc…
Any guidance is very much appreciated! Thank you!
Derek, You need to send an addendum explaining why your score decreased on the third try. Hopefully your post helps scare some people away from taking the LSAT a third time if there isn’t a good indication that they would improve. If everything else in your application is strong, this doesn’t have to be the end of the world for your decision but on the other hand it makes the 157 look like an aberration, so you do need to explain it.
Ann,
To apply as a transfer student to a T-14 school should I work on and submit my personal statement (and the rest of the application) during the spring semester and thus before spring semester finals? Or should I wait until i finish spring semester finals and then work on/submit my personal statement? I’m unsure how early I should began the work to apply as a transfer seeing as I won’t know my spring grades until mid-june.
Thank You!
Karly, many people higher up in your class will have the same idea….
I’m so glad I found this website and look forward to receiving your knowledgeable input!
I recently received my grades for my first semester at a T4 for-profit law school in Florida. Class rank has not been released yet but my 3.80 GPA should definitely be in the top %. I received my undergraduate degree in biological sciences from UGA and earned a 3.3 GPA because I was at the time pursuing dentistry. After realizing dental school was not the way to go my senior year, I took the LSAT without studying and made a 157. With these numbers, UGA law was far out of reach; however, and I am interested in transferring there. From my understanding, law schools value loyalty and I am unsure if they will be receptive to a student from Florida Coastal. Should I instead try for a better school in Florida or stay and be a “big fish in a small pond”? My main concern in transferring is that I will register last and not enroll in classes I need next fall i.e. con law.
Just for context, I am from Georgia and all my contacts are there, while I like the weather, etc. in Florida. My ultimate goal is to receive a job upon graduation and in doing so, I want to market myself in the best available fashion.
Thank you for any assistance you may provide!
Hello Ann,
Thanks for all the help you’ve been giving all of us over the years!
I just finished my first semester as a 1L in Southwestern. So far, I’ve gotten two Bs and one B-. My other two grades should fare a bit better (I’m expecting a minimum of a B+ rolling in).
What are your thoughts on this overall? I was considering a transfer to USC or UCLA, but I doubt that’d be possible with these type of grades at this point. Do you know anything about class rank and percentages for Southwestern? I’m dying to know what sort of bracket I’m currently falling into (Am I at least in the upper half? Better, worse?)
Many thanks.
SM
Hi Ann,
I am a 1L at Charleston School of Law. I graduated from Washington & Lee with a 3.3 but got a 152 on my LSAT. After my first semester at CSOL, I have a 3.4 GPA. Do you think I have a shot at transferring to UGA, UNC, or Richmond? Also, do you know if my low LSAT score will be a factor in the transfer process? Thanks!
Hey, im really nervous i finished 3 semesters of law school but my GPA fell under the appropriate for my school. My school will not take me back as ive restarted before. Am i stuck with 2 years of law school, thousands of dollars in loans and no career? Is there an option for me?
I know you have helped a lot of people make their decisions on transferring and hopefully you could shed some light for me.
I just finished my first semester of all school with a 3.0 at Tech and wanted to transfer preferably to SMU, but am willing to go to Houston or Waco.
Do you think I stand a chance?
Ann,
How can I send an addendum if I’ve already submitted my application? Should I go so far as to notify the school asking them if I can edit and re-submit my application?
Thanks!
Derek
Derek, just email it to the school directly.
Hi Ann,
I am a 1L at Charleston School of Law. I graduated from Washington & Lee with a 3.3 but got a 152 on my LSAT. After my first semester at CSOL, I have a 3.4 GPA. Do you think I have a shot at transferring to UGA, UNC, or Richmond? Also, do you know if my low LSAT score will be a factor in the transfer process? Thanks!
Jayson,
I am so glad you posted this because my readers need to see that this does happen and they really need to consider how likely they are to succeed in law school and what they are willing to do to make it happen. Getting in is no guarantee of graduating!
If you’ve restarted before and you did not improve, you are not going to be able to show a turnaround that would be convincing. I know this is upsetting but I hope you can find something that is a better fit for you, appreciate this as a (very expensive) learning experience and change what needs to be changed for you to feel successful at what you do.
Ann,
Your site has provided much insight and a great source of information.
Im one of those students who refused to give up on his dream after a dismal LSAT score. I enrolled at a tier 4 in Chicago and my first semester grades have come back with a 3.9 GPA (after much hard work and some faith).
GULC is the obvious first choice for transfer for me since half my family lives out there, and also due to its stellar reputation. Should I feel confident if I apply Early Action, or do I still have a lot of work to do?
Likewise, with schools in the top 30 such as UIUC, UNC Chapel Hill, UCLA, USC, Fordham, how do you think I fare as a transfer candidate?
RH, your LSAT score won’t be a factor – just your performance and rank at Charleston.
Shane, I’m so glad the blog is helpful. Thanks for being a loyal reader.
I think instead of thinking about transferring, you need to think about improving your grades a bit and finding ways to distinguish yourself in finding employment – you’re not going to be a good transfer candidate unless you really shoot up this semester.
Hi Ann,
Thanks so much for maintaining this site and providing this invaluable advice. I just finished my first semester at a low top-50 school and eeked out a 3.9 GPA. Unfortunately, my current school only has a regional appeal, and I’m looking to enter a more competitive market in NY or CA. I’m curious – what are my chances at a T14 like Berkeley, or even a T6 like Columbia or NYU? Any chance for Stanford if I repeat my performance next semester? Thanks for your help.
Sarah (and others who have posted recently asking similar things about whether they can transfer – I’m sorry I can’t answer individually because I’m actually sick this week but trying to keep up with all of you….)
It’s not yet proven how successful FL Coastal grads are in transferring. You can certainly try to move back to GA and see what happens but FC is not yet a proven entity in this regard.
TO the person who has the perfect grades at SW, try to transfer – I think you’ll be very pleased with your outcome.
Hello Ann,
I tried reading other comments but could not find any with my specific issue, so here it goes…
I’m from California and went to a school in Alabama for the first year because I had family there and the school had a much later application due date than schools in California. I did not have adequate time to compile a sufficient application for California, but I did not want to take off an entire year of school so I decided to just go live with family and go to school until I transfer back after the first year. I can’t seem to even find the ranking of my school, probably due to the fact that it received ABA accredition I believe 6 years ago. I’m assuming it’s a tier 4. I just finished my first semester and am in the 5% (and that was with a job). I quit my job and know that I can achieve maybe top 3% after the end of spring semester. Do you have any advice on what schools in California I could potentially get into. Hastings? Pepperdine? San Diego? Davis? Please help. I know I have a lot of potential and should have given more consideration regarding my initial school choice.
Thank you for your help, and sorry for practically writing a novel!
Ann,
Thank you for providing such an incredible resource! I am currently at Gonzaga at just finished with a 3.1 after some disappointing grades. I am currently in the top 33% and am looking to transfer to Colorado first and then Denver second to be be back home.
I graduated from Colorado and was wait listed two years for Denver both times until the very end of the summer. I have heard a few people transfer from a T3 to Colorado being in the top 25%. What do you think my chances would be in the top 33% for both? I plan on doubling my effort this semester and shooting for at least the top 15%.
Also, I have emailed the dean of admissions for Colorado twice, three weeks apart inquiring about the length of the personal statement, where they accepted transfer students in the past and where most candidates rank in their class but have gotten no reply either time. Should I give them a phone call in a week or try one more email?
Thank you very much for your time!
Joe, most transfer apps are submitted in May/June/July and updated with transcripts from second semester when they become available.
Ann,
I am currently a 1L at the University of Connecticut School of Law and received my first semester grades (GPA at 3.24). I wanted to ask if it would be possible for me to transfer to a higher ranked school with these grades. Transferring to either BC, BU or Fordham would be the dream. I do not know my class rank as of yet and hope to bring my grades up during second semester. What schools do you think I’d have a good chance at transferring to?
Hi Ann,
I was wondering what your thoughts are on including an addendum explaining LSAT scores for a transfer app. I am currently in the top 1% of my class and am considering transferring, but I was wondering if I should explain that standardized tests are not indicative of my performance in the classroom. It seems like it might be unnecessary because it is implied by my transcript and credentials. Thanks so much.
A.W., I agree.
Jon, stop harassing the poor admissions dean! Work this semester on improving your grades in law school and submit the application this spring and see what happens.
Laura, thanks for reading the other comments first ; )
I can’t give specific feedback on schools without more information but I hope that people currently applying to law school as 1Ls read your comment because this is exactly what I warn people not to do (sorry!) – you shouldn’t make short term decisions in favor of longer term ones. Because your law school is unproven, I can’t tell you how much value prospective transfer schools will see in your grades/success there. You will have to try but cast a wide net with safety schools if you really want to be in California.
Hello Ann,
Thanks for all of the insight on the sight. I am a 1L at a tier 4 law school in Texas (Thurgood Marshall). This semester I got a solid 3.5 finishing first in my Legal Research/Writing class. I was pretty excited about that considering professors can only give 2 A’s in each Legal Writing class (curve is horrendous). Anyways, I’m working towards making my GPA a little stronger for the end of the school year as well. Recently, I found out that my fiancee (who’s a lieutenant in the Navy) has to take orders for 2 years in Louisiana. I had never planned on transferring schools however, we have already been apart for about a year so I was hoping that I could finish my law degree in Louisiana and possibly make that our new home. Do you think it’s possible with my credentials to transfer into LSU in Baton Rouge? I’m not for sure of my exact ranking but I’m thinking it’s around top 11% (or at least I’m hoping so since we had a nice sized entering class, about 224 first years). I would prefer to go to LSU over the other LA schools bc of tuition. Tulane and Loyola are super expensive and my tuition is currently pretty cheap right now. Do you know how LSU operates as far as transfers or any good advice for getting in?
haa…. I mean thanks for all the insight on the site…. funny typo!
Ok so I posted to the site earlier but it seemed to have magically disappeared so i apologize if you get 2 posts. I’m a 1L at a tier 4 in Texas (Thurgood Marshall). I got a 3.5 fall semester and earned the highest grade in my Legal Research/ Writing class. I never planned on transferring but my fiancee (who’s a lieutenant in the Navy) has been given orders for 2 years in Louisiana. Considering he has been in California for the past year, I’m trying to not spend an additional 2 years apart from each other. Despite the many negatives, I actually like my school but I’m kind of excited about possibly transferring. i want to practice either 1) Labor and Employment Law or 2.) oil and gas (different arenas, I know, lol). I think I would be in the right place in either LA or TX for both of these specialties and whichever state of law school I graduate from, we are planning to make our home so that i can practice where I studied law. I believe that I’m around the top 11% or so. If I were to keep heading in a positive direction regarding my grades, would I be in a good position for transferring to LSU in LA? I like Tulane and even Loyola but the tuition is killing me. LSU sounds a little more reasonable. Any advice on chances or what I would need to do?
Oh yeah Ann,
From Undergrad I had a pretty low LSAT (mid 140′s) and a GPA of about 3.39 double majoring from Purdue University. Don’t know if that is of any help or concern.
Ashley, since you’ve done well in law school you should try LSU and other schools in the locations that would be good for you. At least then you could make a choice about whether to stay where you are or leave.
Hey Ann, you’re the best.
I just finished first semester at Catholic with a 3.78. Do you think I have a chance of getting into GULC EA?
Thanks for everything.
PS- I just got a copy of your book, so hopefully that will help!
William, go for it!!!! And I look forward to your thoughts on the book.
Hi Ann,
Thank you for taking the time to respond to all of us! I also read the previous comments but failed to find a comparable situation. I’m a 1L at CUNY with a 3.7 GPA. Our school doesn’t rank and I’m not sure about the curve. I’ve had some extenuating family circumstances throughout my undergraduate career and my first semester at law school, which are only now becoming less burdensome. I took the LSAT once without studying and got a 152, but my UGPA was a 3.8. I didn’t have the luxury of re-taking it because of the aforementioned circumstances.
I was accepted at schools like Northeastern and Quinnipiac, and waitlisted at UF and Emory; however, I chose CUNY because of its public interest mission, proximity to family, and its affordable tuition/scholarship offering (mostly because of economics…)
I’ve realized CUNY isn’t the school for me, but I’m not sure if it’s worth transferring to a better school and paying more tuition but gaining better career prospects unless the school is a T-14 or top 30.
I would like to stay in the NYC/northeastern area, which limits my possibilities. I’m sure my chances of getting in to NYU are slim, at best, but would schools like BU, BC, and Fordham be within reach? If they are, is it worth the money? While I still want to pursue public interest work at some point, I want a secure career and to be able to help my family.
Thanks again!
Hi Ann!
I just finished my first semester at John Marshall in Chicago with a 3.52 gpa. I do not know my rank yet, but I think it will be within the top 20%.
I attended undergrad at the University of Illinois and would really like to return for law school. I don’t have standout work experience, but solid academic credentials. Do you have any insight or advice on making this a reality? Thank you!
HI Jen,
Not a lot of people try to transfer out of CUNY because they usually go there for the reasons you cited. Again, for other readers (not so helpful to you – sorry Jen!) this is why I caution people about going to any law school they can get into with an LSAT score they didn’t prepare for….I think you can try applying (of course) to BU, BC and Fordham and see what happens. These schools are very expensive and if you really want to do public interest in the Northeast then you might be better off being a big fish in a smaller pond. Why don’t you go talk to a Career Services person at your school and see where students have ended up and how you feel about those jobs. Also look into loan forgiveness programs and whether they would apply to you and to what extent (if you transfer to a private school). Look at the jobs you would like to have after graduation and see where those students went. And you may want to read my new book, The Law School Decision Game, for more on career prospects and school ranking.
Patrick, talk to a professor who will write you a letter of rec. See if he or she knows of anyone who has pulled this off and what their GPA was. Keep working on your grades this semester – it’s possible you may do even better.
When I applied to law schools I received a full scholarship to DU. I didn’t take it and I just completed my first semester at BYU (top 50%). I am thinking about transferring to DU but the tuition is completely out of my range. Everything I have read says that schools do not give scholarships to transfer students. Is this correct? Is there any wiggle room? Is visiting status a possibility? If so, would I pay BYU tuition at DU? Any direction is appreciated! Thanks!
Hello,
I am currently a pre-law senior at the University of West Florida. I have couple of questions about my chances of getting into Florida State. At one point in time my gpa suffered due to circumstances beyond my control. Therefore, the last 60 credit hours of my education I have had to work extra hard to raise my gpa. I have a 3.4 gpa for these last 60 credit hours. My overall is a 3.0. I plan on taking the LSAT this June. So my questions are: How much does life experience count when being considered? What LSAT score should I strive for? How much weight will my 3.4 gpa have over my overall gpa of 3.0?
Thanks.
Hello Ann:
I am a URM 1L attending law school in the mid-west T70. Due to have a strong desire to practice law on the East Coast and otherwise being a native, I am interested in transferring to a law school on the east coast. I am looking at law school similar ranked to the law school I am currently attending. (e.g. Top 50 through 70). I am non-traditional with about 7 years of solid work experience etc. What sort of GPA/Rank would be competitive? I am just concerned with retiring to the east coast due to family commitment etc.
Hi Ann,
In one of your posts you stated that it’s generally quite difficult to transfer from Cooley law. I was wondering why that is?
AM
HI Ann,
I am currently a 1L at a T4 school and want to transfer to the east coast to be closer to my wife and child. I’m not looking to jump up to a higher tiered/ranking school but I just want to be local. I am ok with making a lateral move if necessary. My GPA is a 3.0 so I was wondering what my chance are of making a lateral move or perhaps even jumping up to a tier 3 or tier 2?
GG
Bonnie, life experience does count, if it is presented well in the application materials. When your GPA will be at a school’s 25th percentile, you would be best situated with an LSAT score at the school’s 75th percentile but anywhere in the 25th-75th percentile range would put you in contention with strong materials. The upward trend does matter, but a 3.4 is not a 3.8. I talk a lot about these issues in The Law School Admission Game so you may benefit from checking that out.
Hi Ann,
I am currently a 1L at Touro Law School. My gpa is currently 3.1. My ugpa was a 3.2 and my Lsat score was a 147. My school has not released class ranks yet. Unfortunately, I received one F and two C s in college. I was working and attending college during that time. I was wondering if I have a chance of transferring to Cuny law school or transferring to any other law school in Ny.
Ann, I forgot to mention that before law school I worked as a paralegal at a law firm for three years.
Dear Ann,
First thank you for your website and everything you’ve written, it was a great help when I was applying to schools! I am currently a 1L at UW Madison, and just finished the first semester with a 3.4 (top 20%). I’m hopping to do slightly better this semester, since one class brought me down (horrible prof, had to teach myself the material). I just got engaged, and am thinking of transferring to the east coast (fiance is in nyc).
You seem to often advocate being a big fish in a smaller pond… So do you think it is worth transferring to a similar ranked school (ie Fordham, if I get in), for better chances at east coast employment, or stay here and keep my grades up, and make it onto a journal and/or moot court?
Also, do you think I would have any chances at NYU or Columbia?
Thanks again!
Anita, Thanks for being a long-time reader of the blog.
I think, if you want to stay engaged and get married, that the best thing is for you to be in NY. It’s just too stressful to be away from your partner (I’m about to celebrate my 10th wedding anniversary this year, so I have a bit of expertise on this!).
I think a lateral transfer is more likely unless you REALLY bring your grades up significantly this semester.
Hi Ann,
I am interested in going to law school. My UGPA is 3.12, and I haven’t taken the LSAT yet.
Do I have any chance of getting into Tier 4 schools like Whittier, Western State, Cal Western, or Thomas Jefferson School or Tier 3 school like Southwestern?
Hey Ann,
I am currently a 1L at George Washington and received a 2.68 GPA in my first semester. I have not adjusted well to city living, feeling uncomfortable the entire time and my grades have suffered as a result. I am looking to transfer back home to UConn in CT (also the place I want to practice), is this unrealistic? If not, what are my chances to returning home to continue my law school education? Also, I was accepted at UConn before matriculating at GW, does this have any effect on my chances?
Hi Ann,
I currently attend Appalachian School of Law, which has a P/NP 1L grading scheme. Do I have any decent options for potential transfer schools? Anywhere? Thanks!
Hi Ann,
I will be attending Suffolk Law in Boston this fall. I think ranking #1 or #2 is reasonable. I need to stay in Boston because of family. Is transferring to B.U. or B.C. a reality? if it helps, I am 31 and have 9 years of a self-employment working history.
Thanks
Hi Ann,
I’ve been reading posts and the advise you give to students and it seems really helpful. Hoping you could help me too.
I am at a tier 3 school with a 3.0 GPA. My class doesn’t give out ranks till the end of first year. What are the possibilities of transferring. You can be brutally honest. I really want to know if I stand a chance or if I should just stay put.
I too just got engaged to my boyfriend of 5 years and I want to be closer to him. Also personal but does long distance usually work out? Since I saw the message you sent one girl regarding that.
I’ll be waiting for your reply. Thanks Ann!
Hi BH.
I actually enjoy giving the personal advice as much as the professional, so thanks for asking : )
I think the relationship works if your fiance/spouse is supportive of what you are doing and not just supportive in word, but in deed. Is he willing to travel, to let you study when he visits, to listen to you bitch and moan about the rule against perpetuities? Is he proud of what you are doing? Does he recognize that you are as much a part of building your financial future together as you are? Does he expect you to quit practicing law when you are married and/or when you have children? These are really important things to figure out. (And, to add some credibility to this, let me tell you that I was divorced the year after I graduated from law school and have now been happily married for 10 years this year!)
About transferring, you can try a lateral transfer and explain to the school that your fiance is nearby. But you are unlikely to transfer ‘up’.
I really do hope this helps.
Ann,
He is the most supportive person I could have by my side. He used to visit me twice a month last semester, but since I’m focusing all my energy in hopes of transferring. I haven’t seen or heard from him much, which is a little sad.
I am trying to boost my GPA this semester in hopes of maybe transferring. I am at the only Tier 3 school in the state and I am not willing to go down to a Tier 4. I love my fiance and he knows that, but my education is really important to me and I wouldn’t transfer closer for a Tier 4 school. God that sounds so awful, but he understands and he wouldn’t let me transfer if it wasn’t to a higher or equivalent school.
Is there hope for me to raising my grades to moving to a Tier 2? What would be a good GPA.
Thanks so much.